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Grok 4.5

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Re: Grok 4.5

#691

Post by Gareth321 »

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #291

I just don't think that I can ever trust an xAI model knowing that they are actively trying to shape its replies to fit a political narrative. How can you trust their models to be reliable in a business setting with the foreknowledge that their models are being nudged around in the backend?

Do you remember when Gemini [made diverse Nazis](https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079371/google-ai-gemini...) and refused to make white polar bears or white ice cream? That was Google actively trying to shape its replies to fit a political narrative. I value companies which attempt to shape that political narrative as neutrally as possible, and given the numerous examples of both OpenAI and Google injecting very far left wing San Francisco political values into their models, we shouldn't trust any of them.

Re: Grok 4.5

#692

Post by gf000 »

benjamoon wrote: post #662

So depressing to read the non-stop political comments here. I’m using GLM at the moment, it’s Chinese and backed by god knows who, and no one cares. I really wanted to see what the experts thought of new Grok tech and how the model compares etc. I wish I could turn off the non-technical comments somehow, could literally just go to reddit if I want to see garbage like this. Am I supposed to get emotional every time I…

Everything is political, no one, no thing is apolitical.

Re: Grok 4.5

#693

Post by gadders »

Gareth321 wrote: post #685
spiderfarmer wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that people in the US need to be apathetic towards politics to even survive in today's hopelessly divided and misinformed society, as it is a taboo subject that ends careers and family connections. But the rest of the world lives in a more free speech society. There's a whole world where you don't have to avoid politics and you can be freely anti-fascist, without worrying that the self proclaimed hardcore nerd…

> But the rest of the world lives in a more free speech society. Dane here, this is not just specious, it's inaccurate. We have far fewer free speech rights in Europe than they do in the US. Tens of thousands of people all over Europe are arrested and imprisoned each year for speech which would be considered protected in the US. [This man was arrested for calling a politician an idiot.]( https://www.ft.com/content/27…

>> We have far fewer free speech rights in Europe than they do in the US.

I'm in the UK. Mean tweets lead straight to jail now.

Re: Grok 4.5

#694

Post by gf000 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #678
emil-lp wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardcore nerds have always been political. Wake up. You're using the sell my soul to the devil argument. If you achieve what you want to, it doesn't matter if you sold your soul on the way.

"Everything is political" is what people say when they want everything to be political. We don't have to make LLM models political. You do it because you enjoy soapboxing. It's perfectly reasonable for people who enjoy this technology to ask you to keep it in spaces which are dedicated to soapboxing, like Reddit. Not HackerNews.

How can an LLM be apolitical if they had to choose a set of text to feed it, which choice is inherently political? Especially when the whole thing of grok is to have a certain very specific bias?

Re: Grok 4.5

#695

Post by gf000 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #685
spiderfarmer wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that people in the US need to be apathetic towards politics to even survive in today's hopelessly divided and misinformed society, as it is a taboo subject that ends careers and family connections. But the rest of the world lives in a more free speech society. There's a whole world where you don't have to avoid politics and you can be freely anti-fascist, without worrying that the self proclaimed hardcore nerd…

> But the rest of the world lives in a more free speech society. Dane here, this is not just specious, it's inaccurate. We have far fewer free speech rights in Europe than they do in the US. Tens of thousands of people all over Europe are arrested and imprisoned each year for speech which would be considered protected in the US. [This man was arrested for calling a politician an idiot.]( https://www.ft.com/content/27…

Posting a swastika is not free speech. All the rest, you have in the US as well (libel, etc).

Re: Grok 4.5

#696

Post by jack_pp »

emil-lp wrote: post #669
benjamoon wrote: post #662

So depressing to read the non-stop political comments here. I’m using GLM at the moment, it’s Chinese and backed by god knows who, and no one cares. I really wanted to see what the experts thought of new Grok tech and how the model compares etc. I wish I could turn off the non-technical comments somehow, could literally just go to reddit if I want to see garbage like this. Am I supposed to get emotional every time I…

The hardcore nerds have always been political. Wake up. You're using the sell my soul to the devil argument. If you achieve what you want to, it doesn't matter if you sold your soul on the way.

Wake up, the people in power are corrupt regardless of their political orientation. There are no saints in politics. This has been true since times immemorial with few exceptions.

Re: Grok 4.5

#697

Post by jack_pp »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #688
benjamoon wrote: post #662

So depressing to read the non-stop political comments here. I’m using GLM at the moment, it’s Chinese and backed by god knows who, and no one cares. I really wanted to see what the experts thought of new Grok tech and how the model compares etc. I wish I could turn off the non-technical comments somehow, could literally just go to reddit if I want to see garbage like this. Am I supposed to get emotional every time I…

You reap what you sow. What I want to know is why so many people are lamenting actions having consequences?

and what are the consequences? angry people on message boards?

According to gemini, musk has made over 600B since trump took power. you think a few hundred people in this comment section calling him a nazi has any effect on him?

Re: Grok 4.5

#698

Post by nkmnz »

benjamoon wrote: post #662

So depressing to read the non-stop political comments here. I’m using GLM at the moment, it’s Chinese and backed by god knows who, and no one cares. I really wanted to see what the experts thought of new Grok tech and how the model compares etc. I wish I could turn off the non-technical comments somehow, could literally just go to reddit if I want to see garbage like this. Am I supposed to get emotional every time I…

1. Be offended by political comments.

2. Make political comment about political comments.

Re: Grok 4.5

#699

Post by gf000 »

rdbl27 wrote: post #457
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #291

I just don't think that I can ever trust an xAI model knowing that they are actively trying to shape its replies to fit a political narrative. How can you trust their models to be reliable in a business setting with the foreknowledge that their models are being nudged around in the backend?

Has it occurred to you that _all_ model providers are actively trying to shape their models' replies to fit their preferred political narratives?

"Reality has a liberal bias" .

Sure, every author has a bias. But a fair selection of human written sources will be pretty balanced (of course, given the ratio of languages, surely western models will have a western-christian bias - presumably Chinese models less so, but this latter I have no way of checking).

If you train specific stuff on top, or deliberately filter the sources (e.g. Tiananmen square), your model is deliberately less honest on that topic. Grok is probably the worst in deliberately filtering and training "out" specific stuff (to the point where Elon posted stuff that "they will 'fix' the models" real output when it said something true but remotely liberal). Claude and chatgpt definitely have some similar stuff, but mostly to protect themselves (e.g. suicide prevention, not saying slurs, etc). I don't think the two is comparable (reality bending vs basic etiquette-kind of not saying everything out loud)

Re: Grok 4.5

#700

Post by throwaway132448 »

jack_pp wrote: post #697
throwaway132448 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You reap what you sow. What I want to know is why so many people are lamenting actions having consequences?

and what are the consequences? angry people on message boards? According to gemini, musk has made over 600B since trump took power. you think a few hundred people in this comment section calling him a nazi has any effect on him?

You’ve taken my comment out of the context I was replying to, so none of what you’ve said is remotely relevant to what I said.
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