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Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#691

Post by southerntofu »

joenot443 wrote: post #445
noah_buddy wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very strange to go “why isn’t the left doing anything about this conflict when they cared so much about Palestine?” My government doesn’t fund Iran.

I think when westerners like myself notice the disparity in response amongst western progressives between the Palestinian and Iranian situations, they're talking more from a social lens than the geopolitical one. A lot of my peers have been incredibly active on social media the last couple years supporting Palestinians. They've been mostly completely silent on Iran, the imbalance is notable.

> A lot of my peers have been incredibly active on social media the last couple years supporting Palestinians.

So it took from 1947 (if not longer) to 2023 to have this population become aware of the problem. Still up until a few months ago, at least here in France, it was very unwelcome (and even politically persecuted, via house searches and terrorism charges) to even mention the idea of a genocide in Palestine.

I remember over a decade ago quoting israeli settlers, newspapers and politicians arguing a genocide was ongoing. But at the time, calling it a genocide here in France placed you in the loony bin in the eyes of most people. Given some time, the iranian revolution of 2025-2026 will be well-known.

Beyond the differences outlined by other commenters (that western governments don't support Iran, but do support Israel), there's this difference that few feel compelled to get over-active on this issue because every one already feels concerned: all the TVs are talking about it, and even the right-wingers are on board. Overall, everyone (apart from some islamists) are convinced that the Iranian government is criminal. Now what can we do?

Continue spreading awareness ; your peers may get on board! But better, get informed and involved. There may be, for example, a kurdish-iranian diaspora near you organizing solidarity protests and proposing courses to understand the politics of Iran, get versed in jineology, or understand the basic tenants of democratic confederalism. There's also other diaspora. I would just encourage you to be careful with the "Reza Pahlavi" crowd, who support a fascist regime change in Iran and would encourage just as much horrible crimes as those we witness today, if they weren't done in the name of islam.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#692

Post by mikkupikku »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #465
mikkupikku wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC metro traffic is hell!

Ah, the 30 miles threw me off.

3 hours for 30 miles is probaby an error, or an exaggeration, but knowing the traffic on the Maryland side of that metro area, it really is quite bad..

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#693

Post by thisislife2 »

nickff wrote: post #636
thisislife2 wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the west, the Arabs or Persians have never nurtured any hatred of Jews till the British (and later the Americans) forcefully backed the creation of a Jewish state in the middle-east. Even today, muslims around the world don't give a damn about Jews or antisemitism unless it is in the context of Palestinians. This is in stark contrast to the christian west, which still harbours a lot of antisemitism and is the…

There was plenty of oppression against Jewish people in the Middle East before Israel became a country. Blame whomever you want, but the Jewish populations there were targeted for discriminatory taxation and various other forms of oppression.

The Jizya tax on non-muslims in many Islamic empires was never a "discriminatory" tax. This is a common anti-muslim trope and an example of distorting history by considering it through modern political lens. In most muslim empires, this tax was only imposed on non-muslims who wanted to be exempt from serving in the military but still be a citizen of the Islamic empire they were part of. Those who chose to join military service were exempted from payment. Only free adult, non-muslim males were required to pay it and women, children, elders, the disabled, the insane, religious workers, hermits, slaves etc. were exempt. Some muslim rulers also exempted the poor amongst the non-muslims from paying it.

Muslims weren't required to pay a similar tax to the government because they were already obligated by their religion to pay a certain percentage of their wealth every year towards charity (Zakat).

This trope was popularised as part of the "divide and rule" policy of the British to generate animosity between muslims and non-muslims in many a British colony and today is commonly spouted in the anti-muslim tirades of many a right-wing religious fundamentalists.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#694

Post by nickff »

direwolf20 wrote: post #683
nickff wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest the Wikipedia article as a very good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel#Ancient_Isra...

Did they have states in 1209 BC? I'm pretty sure the modern Israel state is a modern invention, that just happens to take its name from former states. The modern state of Greece isn't the one from Jesus's time either.

Well, if you're only going to count modern states, the only previous one to occupy that area was the Ottoman Empire. After that, there was a British Mandate, but that wasn't a state. Modern states only started after the Treaty of Westphalia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#695

Post by doofkoof »

thisislife2 wrote: post #674
midlander wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, Jews are denied entry to many Muslim countries - not just Israelis, anyone who looks Jewish. The excuse that “some other people of this religion did something bad” does not justify hating and ethnically cleansing everyone who shares that religion.

As for the ban on Jews by some Arab / muslim countries - remember that the west was actively encouraging Jews, with Zionist movements all over the world, to migrate to the middle-east and occupy muslim-Arab territory. Sure, it began with a narrow focus with only Palestine. But who knew where it would stop if it was successful? Most of these countries are former western colonies who immediately understood what the wes…

It is not as those Arab nations are some phenomenon of nature. The process of Arabization was, and perhaps is, itself one of settler colonialism and oppression. The fact that the colors of the caliphates are explicitly flown in areas outside of Arabia is proof enough of that.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#696

Post by FilosofumRex »

imsaeed wrote: post #239
FilosofumRex wrote: post #198

[flagged]

You confused the Quds Force with the IRGC. IRGC is involved in nearly everything in Iran.

Quds force is a the expeditionary force division of IRGC. IRGC are uniformed military officers and operate under armed forces regulations not police or civilian law enforcement.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#697

Post by vel0city »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #425
woeh wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest difference is "our" role in it. For western countries, the economic and diplomatic relations with e.g. Israel is a lot stronger than with Iran. It makes much more sense to speak up if you feel your country or one of their allies does something you disagree with. That is only pragmatic, right? Speaking up might actually change things by putting these relations at stake. For Iran, there might not be much le…

I think this is something that a lot of supporters of the Gaza protests tell themselves, but I am not sure that it's actually true. The US and other Western countries sell weapons to Saudi Arabia and have extensive economic ties to that country. Saudi Arabia recently engaged in a bombing campaign in Yemen that looked very similar to Israel's campaign in Gaza. And yet there were no protests. Also, you can influence yo…

> Saudi Arabia recently engaged in a bombing campaign in Yemen that looked very similar to Israel's campaign in Gaza. And yet there were no protests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpiW-r-zfW8

I've seen a bunch of protesters about the war in Yemen outside the bomb factories around me.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#698

Post by FilosofumRex »

sepisoad wrote: post #391

An iranian expat here. I have been following the news closely, mostly getting my data from my friends in Iran before the internet shutdown and after it was (sort of) lifted. The death toll is way above this number, you have to consider the fact that Iran is a big country with many small cities, and in my city alone (which is very small and rarely has any protest going on) many people have died (i don’t have the exact…

[flagged]

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#699

Post by FilosofumRex »

ch4s3 wrote: post #537
noah_buddy wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, what am I supposed to do about it? If one lives in one of most western countries, one’s government has sanctioned Iran to the gills. Even the government can do little more, except engage in war. Compare this to Palestine, where direct action and protest is much more tangibly impactful.

European governments could expel Iranian ambassadors as a start.

[flagged]

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#700

Post by thisislife2 »

doofkoof wrote: post #669
thisislife2 wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the west, the Arabs or Persians have never nurtured any hatred of Jews till the British (and later the Americans) forcefully backed the creation of a Jewish state in the middle-east. Even today, muslims around the world don't give a damn about Jews or antisemitism unless it is in the context of Palestinians. This is in stark contrast to the christian west, which still harbours a lot of antisemitism and is the…

This is not true, Jews, like many other groups, have been oppressed and humiliated by the Islamic Arab world for well over a thousand years. I truly can not believe you can say this with a straight face if you have spent any amout of time in Arabic speaking circles. The disgust towards Jewish people is open and constant, and I am not talking about attitudes towards zionism.

I have indeed spent some time in Arab countries, and also know a few Arabs. They didn't spout any kind of antisemitism. (Some of them did warn me to be careful of Egyptians though :). They do have disgust towards Israel as a country because of the actions of the Israeli-right in power. But that's not antisemitism however much Netanyahu and his cohorts would like it to be. I however do know some religious fundamentalist Muslims in my own country, who are definitely antisemitic and hate Jews for, well, being Jews. I also know some religious fundamentalists Hindus who hate Muslims, again, just because they are Muslims. But that's just how religious fundamentalists are - they aren't rational human beings and you can't use them as an example to tarnish a whole community. Netanyahu and his ilks are right-wing religious fundamentalists too, and that is why it is easy for them to slaughter Palestinian Muslims and Christians. Does that mean all Israeli jews are horrible human beings too, like them? Ofcourse not.
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