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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#691

Post by concinds »

gpm wrote: post #653
anakaine wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to doubt that it would push the populace against the company when the company is actually both providing good (free protection, DDOS mitigation, CyberSec) and supporting appropriate judicial process to make decisions.

Political threats of withdrawing from an event in an explicit attempt to pressure the country is the opposite of supporting appropriate judicial process.

Is this some weird variant of the right-wing claim that freedom of association is “censorship”? Why would a government be entitled to free shit?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#692

Post by yorwba »

petre wrote: post #651
gpm wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say I'm curious over whether that's actually leverage or a massively miscalculated threat that is just going to push the Italian population and politicians firmly against cloudflare. I'm pretty sure if you tried that here (Canada) it would do the latter.

Not a fan of Cloudfare but why should it be responsible for providing pro bono services to the Italian government during the winter olympics? If one gets drunk at the pub and threatens the staff after being served free drinks, they get thrown out. Why should this be any different? In Spain they also have similar laws made specifically for UEFA and the broadcasters' mafia.

The services aren't pro bono if they're only offered in exchange for getting a law modified.

And if you offer people free stuff and then turn around and demand something in return, they're going to get upset and like you less than if you had never offered the free stuff in the first place.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#694

Post by hexbin010 »

miohtama wrote: post #479
nathanlied wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Football is extremely popular, and football clubs (and their owners) are quite influential (socially and politically). But it's a little bigger than that. EU is pushing for measures against live-event piracy[1], because they frame this as a systemic threat to cultural/economic systems, giving national regulators broad cover to act aggressively. While football is quite huge in Europe at large, the impact to GDP of the…

Football, the clubs, are also major driver of money laundering. Dirty cash buys a lot of politicians. https://www.comsuregroup.com/news/a-red-card-for-dirty-money...

A company that would profit from more regulations arguing for more regulations. No way !

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#695

Post by svara »

NamlchakKhandro wrote: post #180
qsort wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Italian. I think everybody sucks here? Most Italian authorities like this one are chock full of incompetents, and I'm almost sure they're just caving in to some soccer broadcaster or some crap like that. He might very well be fully correct on the fact of the matter. Still, the rhetoric of the post is frankly disgusting. No, I'm not taking lessons in democracy from JD Vance, thank you very much. No, I don't think…

But might does make rights. Because all it takes is men with guns to change what rights you think you have. If you can't defend yourself against that then you have no rights.

You can go back to the ancient Greeks to explain what is wrong about that.

Literally two thousand years of civilization were spent on combating the pockets in which people live by that principle.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#696

Post by svara »

DangitBobby wrote: post #630
burkaman wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the Stephen Miller caveman view of the world, but it obviously doesn't make sense if you think about it for more than five seconds. It's a very straightforward consequence of refusing to ever admit you are wrong. "If I did it, then I must have had the right to do it." It's just a refusal to accept the philosophical concept of rights. The right to vote doesn't exist because you didn't have to defeat the entire…

Refusing to accept the philosophical concept of rights is just correct. You are born with fuck all unless people have decided you are entitled to something by existing. Plenty of people were born without anything remotely resembling rights. If rights were inherent and not simple enforced by people, that wouldn't be the case, would it? Life isn't a fairy tail.

Civilization is literally built on what you're saying being wrong.

It's not wrong because of physics or biology, but because civilization made it so.

Like so many cultural achievements, it's true when you can count on the person next to you expecting it to be true. (1)

Which in turn means you can make that culture collapse if you impress enough people with your edgelord attitude.

Cooperative culture is fragile and must be preserved by preserving shared values such as these. On the other hand, in the long run, the cultures that do this successfully prevail because cooperation is stronger than the law of the jungle.

Unfortunately that 'long run' may take a while.

(1) That's basically the definition of a cultural value. They're emergent phenomena based on Keynesian beauty contests.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#697

Post by Nemo_bis »

monkaiju wrote: post #670
cm2012 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

23 violations of an unjust and unworkable law. The law is bad and should go.

Fair enough but thats not up to cloudflare to decide, if they operate in the country they must respect its laws

We don't know what the law is. The rules were created with an administrative procedure backed by a very generic statute which is likely unconstitutional. Neither the Supreme court (Cassazione) nor the Constitutional court have ruled on the matter yet.

Getting a fine is the first step towards further judicial review, probably.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#698

Post by pembrook »

Reading this comment thread it’s now clear to me that HN is beyond any repair and is officially dead.

It’s fully transitioned to a political reactionary Reddit board devoid of any interesting discussion or insight.

Did it get too popular for its own good or has everyone just gone crazy?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#700

Post by blacklanzer »

sumedh wrote: post #690
yibg wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Style aside, what do you think he should do? Faced with a law that not only imposes disproportionate fines (more than revenue from the country), but on the surface also requires blocking globally, there are really only a few things to do: 1. Challenge the law in court 3. Influence the law via political means 3. Try to sway public opinion so 2. may be easier 4. Give in and play ball 5. Exit the country entirely

> Challenge the law in court Do the courts in Italy work or do they do what the govt wants them to do.

The government complains everyday about the judges and it's trying to make a referendum to make judges angry, so I wouldn't say courts do what govt says
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