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Being poor vs. being broke

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#691

Post by dangus »

haritha-j wrote: post #300

The author complains about the cost of fixing their car. I come from a country where vehicle ownership puts you in the top 20% in terms of wealth. A motorbike is often the farthest most get.

95% of American commuters get to work in a personal vehicle.

The distance Americans drive is very high. Driving 30 minutes to work might mean traveling ~45km because the infrastructure is heavily reliant on highways. The average daily travel is about 65km.

Many motorbikes aren’t legal or fast enough for the interstate.

America is just built in a way intended car infrastructure. The poorest in America have above average access to cars compared to the rest of the world as a whole, but that doesn’t make them wealthy.

Owning an operating a car in the US is more affordable than many other countries, and things like gas prices, the car industry itself, and road maintenance are heavily subsidized/supported by the government.

The US basically chose personal vehicles as the primary way to get around and structured society around it, with only a small amount of exceptions.

A functioning car in the US is not really much more money than a motorbike, especially because it’s far more common and popular. Motorbikes are more like a niche product.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#692

Post by zestyping »

dijit wrote: post #680
dataflow wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense, but I was trying to figure out something else: if there's someone in this situation I want to help, what (at minimum) could I expect to have to do to get them out of that situation?

I think a better way of thinking about it is to be a lifeline instead of monetary amount. Otherwise you very much risk wandering in to social services, and managing this can be unfair too. If you really want to hold me to a number, then each country has a “poverty index” of some form, if you are able to assist with a roof over someones head and provide them with as much as needed to be over the poverty line, then you…

What does "be a lifeline" mean? If it means "rescue them every time they have a financial emergency", is that an infinite commitment?

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#693

Post by hippo22 »

dwedge wrote: post #665
hippo22 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the debtor could have sold the bike themselves and they didn't. Bidders could have recognized the bike's value but they didn't. This is a story about OP overvaluing a bike and nothing else.

I get your point but there are more factors at play here that you might not be aware of. The debt in question was council tax, every household in the UK pays this at a monthly rate, something like £140 a month. But what most people don't know is that these monthly payments are technically a "gesture of goodwill" from the council, and if you are late for a payment they will really quickly take it to court and send bai…

That sounds absolutely draconian and horrible. But the issue doesn’t seem to be the debt collection. Rather, the issue seems to be a total lack of due process.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#694

Post by itake »

userulluipeste wrote: post #689
itake wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with the kids working in Laos was similar but I have a different interpretation. Your answer was through the eyes of an adult. 12 year olds dont have concept of money. What is a lot of money or why they need to go to school. Asking a 12 year old to understand the value of money and education and life is not fair to the child. What’s actually going on, at least in Laos, is the parents are directing the k…

It is also that, at 12 years of age, that kid may have had enough of harsh life lessons already, like when he was promised something instead of being rewarded on the spot and later it turned out he was just being tricked. I imagine that something like that may have had a much more direct impact on his OP described decision - that hard earned "street smarts" keeping him grounded in his (undesirable) reality.

I watched a 13-16 year old Lao girl come to that realization in a very upset Facebook story. While I don’t fully understand the context, she was crying and venting that her mother doesn’t love her.

Prior to this fb story, the girl’s mother sold her older 16yo sister to Chinese guy for marriage. And frequently leaves her daughter to sleep on the street, because the girl isn’t able to get home by herself.

Despite all of that, she still felt her mother loved her and just then was when she realized it? I don’t know.

Unfortunately Youre correct, but also it takes years for these kids to process these realities. They’re just isn’t one moment where it’s like “maybe my parents don’t love me” time to change my behavior.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#695

Post by dijit »

zestyping wrote: post #692
dijit wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better way of thinking about it is to be a lifeline instead of monetary amount. Otherwise you very much risk wandering in to social services, and managing this can be unfair too. If you really want to hold me to a number, then each country has a “poverty index” of some form, if you are able to assist with a roof over someones head and provide them with as much as needed to be over the poverty line, then you…

What does "be a lifeline" mean? If it means "rescue them every time they have a financial emergency", is that an infinite commitment?

absent sufficient income, basically yes.

Does your employer have an “infinite commitment” to pay your salary?

Of course they do, but it isn’t framed as such.

We’re talking about social support networks here basically, the majority of actually poor people have nowhere to turn (or too much pride to turn anywhere).

There are some people who will be a bottomless pit of investment, and it is because of those that we think social support cannot work at all. The drug addicts, the gamblers.

but for each of those, immediately visible and obvious deadbeats there are 2 or more of people like my mother, who had no family to speak of and was raising a child alone. Or someone like the sysadmin in this thread, who has gainful employment in the first world, but can never get out of his debt hole.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#696

Post by dijit »

cryptonector wrote: post #671
corobo wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low salary for the role in my local area and not moving to a city when I still had the ability to take credit out

It sounds to me like you don't need income from labor. I'm not going to cry for you.

He’s indicated in a sibling thread that he’s not looking for sympathy.

He’s trying to help you empathise that in reality these kinds of holes are really difficult to escape from; moreso than you think on first glance. It’s also very easy to fall into them even if you think you’re immune. Most people are about 2 bad decisions from poverty.

In light of that, your response is just horrible.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#697

Post by dijit »

yibg wrote: post #598
djtango wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I find interesting is that my mother grew up in similar conditions - poor in Borneo in the 50s, my aunt was literally born in the jungle while hiding from the Japanese And yet my mum's family were raised that they were broke, not poor. There were definitely some echoes/overlap like we were raised that wasting food is one of the most egregious sins one can ever commit, and my mum has a compulsion of overpack…

I think also perhaps the reasons for being poor. My family was poor but so was everyone else. It was structural. So as a result (my hypothesis), there wasn’t even the hope of being rich, just not so poor. So for instance the mentality was always to save, not invest, because no one has the money to invest could afford to lose whatever meager savings there was. As a result my up bringing was filled with lessons to play…

Same here.

Its interesting that the same mentalities that get us out of poverty are not the same ones that make people rich.

You could naively assume that competence around money would be universal.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#698

Post by quails8mydog »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #688
abustamam wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Income inequality is one thing, but hardcore poverty, as described by the author, is a different beast This is something I never thought of but certainly rings true. The left always talks about income inequality and poverty as if they are one and the same. And then rebuttal almost always rebut against income inequality (or being "broke") and not poverty. By conflating the two, we're throwing the baby out with the b…

Not sure why that comment got downvoted. I guess that "income inequality" is the Boogeyman Du Jour . I'm unhappy with it, but it is also a lot harder to address, than hardcore poverty. A popular thing for people to do, is wring their hands and complain about problems that can't be solved, while ignoring the ones that can be addressed. Fighting poverty is going to be tough, but fighting income inequality would be orde…

Maybe splitting them is helpful, but why would you have to do them sequentially? Many of the things that reduce income inequality also help reduce poverty. Poverty isn't "low-hanging fruit" and it's something people have been trying to eradicate longer than we've been alive.

Saying "let's not even think about B until we've 100% sorted A" is just a way to ensure B never gets done.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#699

Post by Aeolun »

wiseowise wrote: post #584
Aeolun wrote: post #577

I feel like the author tells us that being poor means worrying about problems you can’t fix all the time? Or at least, that you believe you can never fix them? If you don’t have the $300 for the own part repair on your truck, there’s no point in worrying about it. If you truck breaks it breaks, it’s never going to recover unless you think of something else. Complaining that you don’t have $300 for even the home repai…

Yeah, this right here has never been poor. “Just don’t worry” “Just pull yourself by your bootstraps” “Just stop being poor”

No, I said to stop worrying about stuff you can’t fix. That’s easier said than done, but entirely wealth independent. It’s like worrying about impending death when you are a 90 year old billionaire.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#700

Post by 9rx »

sgarland wrote: post #672
9rx wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I strongly suspect that if you polled random people, they would say something along the lines of b or c. Yes they would. Absolutely. Which means that they clearly see it as being outskirts of a city or town, not the outskirts of an urban area. You even say so yourself. It is literally written as such. > There are also exurbs, whose definition further drives home the point that it isn’t binary: You did the same thin…

Dude, take it from someone who is mildly autistic, and spent a very long time being staunchly prescriptivist: you’re being ridiculously pedantic, and no one cares. Have a nice day.

If you don't care, why take time out of your day to formulate a message?

But, regardless, it is quite delusional to think that I would write for anyone but myself. Nobody is paying me to be here. It can only ever be for myself. As I care, that is more than satisfactory. It makes absolutely no difference what other people have to say about it. It was never for them.

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