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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#691

Post by Centigonal »

marcusverus wrote: post #611
Centigonal wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would have been the right move for Dugan here, according to ICE? Can a judge legally detain a defendant after a pre-trial hearing on the basis of "there are some agents asking about you for unrelated reasons?"

He showed the defendant out a side door to help him avoid ICE, who were waiting at the main door. > What would have been the right move for Dugan here, according to ICE? The right move was to not violate the law by taking steps which were intended to help the defendant evade ICE.

I was not aware of this accusation when I made my original comment

>Milwaukee County Circuit Court Judge Hannah Dugan is accused of escorting the man and his lawyer out of her courtroom through the jury door last week after learning that immigration authorities were seeking his arrest. The man was taken into custody outside the courthouse after agents chased him on foot.

This might change the calculus.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#692

Post by chimeracoder »

perihelions wrote: post #301
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

There's a parallel comment subthread about that, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794576#43795264 ( "In April [2019], [Shelley Joseph] and a court officer, Wesley MacGregor, were accused of allowing an immigrant to evade detention by arranging for him to sneak out the back door of a courthouse. The federal prosecutor in Boston took the highly unusual step of charging the judge with obstruction of justice…" )

AFAIK Selley Joseph was charged, but she was not arrested. Arresting a judge in this sort of scenario is essentially unprecedented.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#693

Post by TrackerFF »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #680
Animats wrote: post #602

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

How is that a key point? The agents were asked to wait in a public area, the hall outside the courtroom. There was a call with the chief judge who confirmed this is a public area. The allegations revolve around judge Dugan's actions. They allegedly cancelled the targets hearing and [directed] the them through a private back door to avoid arrest. Edit: directed, not escorted.

If we're going to be technical about this, which one has to be in the eyes of the law, what is the difference between escorting them through the private back door vs escorting them through the front door?

How do you prove intent? That her intent was to obstruct?

They point out in the article that such room (juror room) is never usually used by certain people, but that still doesn't prove anything about her intent.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#695

Post by Jtsummers »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #621
Jtsummers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Since there were multiple agents (the reports and Patel's post all say "agents" plural) they could have left one at the courtroom, or outside, rather than a…

The claim is different. Agents with an arrest warrant waited in the public hallway, as asked and required by the judges. The judge skipped the hearing for the target and [directed] them out a private back door in an attempt to prevent arrest, leading to a foot chase before apprehension. Edit: directed, not escorted

That information came out after my comment, and also long after the edit window. The updated FBI claim is certainly more damning for the judge (actively impeding their efforts).

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#696

Post by ty6853 »

asdsadasdasd123 wrote: post #684
ajross wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't very well be "obstruction" if they aren't empowered to do the search in the first place, can it? No, this is a disaster. Hyperbole aside, this is indeed how democracy dies. Eventually this escalates to arresting more senior political enemies. And eventually the arbiter of whoever has the power to make and enforce those arrests ends up resting not with the elected government but in the law enforcement and mil…

[flagged]

Garcia could have been deported literally anywhere but el salvador as he had an active deportation order, and withholding only from El Salvador. They could have just dropped him in a barren reef in the middle of the Pacific and said good fucking luck, why they took him the one place he couldn't go evades all logic.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#697

Post by lolinder »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #617
Animats wrote: post #602

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

There is no suggestion that the agents conducted a search or entered a non-public area. And this has nothing to do with the claim that the judge actively obstructed their efforts.

The claim is that the judge, upon finding out that they were there to make an arrest, deliberately led the man out a back door which would under almost no circumstances be available to his use (the jury door), allowing him to bypass the officers attempting to make the arrest.

If true, that's pretty clearly a deliberate attempt to obstruct their efforts. The only question is whether obstructing ICE is classified as the legal offense of obstruction, but I don't have any specific reason to believe it wouldn't be.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#698

Post by lliamander »

mulmen wrote: post #649
lliamander wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is whataboutism and not only is it not persuasive it’s also off putting.

Not every case of reframing in a debate is "whataboutism". Whataboutism is where you bring up unrelated topics. In this case, looking at how we got into a messy situation in the first place is entirely legitimate.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#699

Post by jrflowers »

sarlalian wrote: post #646
noemit wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, CECOT only exists because of this. MS-13 started in the United States, and only spread to El Salvador because of deportations, making El Salvador completely unlivable.

That is a very simple explanation to an obviously more complex issue.

And is entirely correct.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#700

Post by dmoy »

ty6853 wrote: post #558
dmoy wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is illegal in all 50 states to organize a militia.

I know what study you are reading and the case it uses to argue that is highly flawed.

This is the one I remember from years ago:

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...

I'm not sure what case you mean

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