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We're forking Flutter

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Re: We're forking Flutter

#691
post #213
post #114

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How so? Is there anything on what changes they made to Erlang/BEAM?

Process groups, some solid performance tweaks to ETS and Mnesia, etc. It all got upstreamed or became redundant eventually. Rick Reed gave a couple talks about it around a decade ago if you can track down recordings.

Thank you

Re: We're forking Flutter

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've built apps with pretty high retention rate so even if they're annoyed, it doesn't seem like they really stop using them. Mostly though, based on user feedback we collected, not once have I heard anything about UI complaints. It really feels like this is a common refrain on HN about what HNers think happens in theory versus what actually happens in reality wrt user preferences.

Note, this has nothing to do with your app or this specific discussed GUI, but this is something I have noticed over time... I think that what is commonly seen by devs as complaining and being overly concerned with details that don't matter is instead a some of the time advocacy for doing things the right way for the sake of it. It is totally possible to build things that meet the bare minimum requirements for user r…

It's more than there is no evidence of an issue, so why pretend that there is? The "right" way is entirely subjective, unless you can give me some objective criteria for what it should be.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a previous company when we were looking at precisely this problem, building out multiple platform support, we did UX studies where this question in particular came up. The vast majority of people said they wanted apps to act consistently across devices. Most people on the planet use Windows with Android, statistically speaking, which are not similar devices at all, at least on Apple platforms you can use Swift for…

> The vast majority of people said they wanted apps to act consistently across devices You shouldn’t trust what users say they want. It many times doesn’t correlate with what they want. Certainly, I would try and figure out what they mean with “act consistently”. My suspicion (for which I have zero evidence) is that they’re more talking about high-level similarity than about nitty-gritty details such as how many mill…

If you have zero evidence against the mountains of evidence I do have, why should I be convinced of your argument. It seems like it is you who are talking subjectively about what you want and then applying that to everyone else.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#694
post #576

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> You say "insanely stupid", I say wonderful. Yes, that's the most common response. I've heard stories about "how wonderful when you can select everything" multiple times, and that's, of course, just shows how human rationalization works. And yet, this "feature" or "UI choice" is not even a choice. It's just a byproduct of using the wrong stack for the task. Like, nobody ever sat and asked, "Do we want our apps to ha…

It didn't "just happen" the early architects of the web designed a system to make it easy to share and remix content and subsequent generations of companies and their UX designers have so far failed to fully claw back user freedoms.

Content as in significant text and media content, not selecting the text off a button element. I agree, seems like this is just a post facto rationalization of a mistake from a system that was originally designed for content, not application functionality.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#695

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Tableviews are pretty niche and tree views mostly get used for files, so I'm fine not having either in apps that aren't about managing lots of data. I like headers and sections more that tables for most things anyway.

Depends on what's being developed, I guess. No tables/trees is probably ok for a lot of lighter end-user sorts of apps but doing without them for many desktop-first apps and utilities would be rough. Desktop file managers, media library apps, and email apps for example would be quite a lot less useful without multi-column tables at the minimum.

I almost never use email on anything but my phone, and Gmail doesn't use a table. They do some tree stuff for the conversation threads, but conversation threads are obnoxious anyway and I have no idea why anyone likes them, they don't reflect face to face conversations well and always create mistakes where someone forgets to reply to all.

I've replaced a lot of tables in my apps with modal dialog UIs, it's nice to have them behave exactly the same on mobile and web, to not have any risk of mistakes due to filling in a box on the wrong row because the label is too far from the box, and it's just generally more pleasant for us non-ADHDers without very good native multthreading support in our minds.

Android style UI is all about encapsulation and reducing the mental context window to the bare minimum, and it really makes a lot of desktop stuff look pretty clunky and confusing by comparison.

VS Code would definitely suffer a lot without the sidebar tree view though, and it does seem like a lot of people prefer the more open instant access to everything that a table provides, rather than clicking through dialogs.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#696
post #687
post #676

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Nope, one of them is Flutter (I know team PM personally). Which one?

Dude. They're even on the React Native showcase page. I don't know what to say but you're massively mistaken. Uber use React Native too BTW. Lots of other big tech companies also, I don't know of any that use Flutter in a big way. Just some toe dipping

Bolt Food is on the showcase page, not Bolt itself, which would be odd not to add both if indeed they were both RN, so seems like one is RN and the other is not, which is basically what the above commenter was saying initially. None of what you said really invalidates their point, because again if you search for RN jobs for Bolt, why would you not also assume it's for the one on the showcase, ie, Bolt Food? Bolt is the company name after all, not just the app name.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#697
post #382

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I'd also like to meet all these mythical users that have devices from every platform and want all their apps to look the same across all platforms. 99% of people I know IRL are in one ecosystem, with the exception of some that have an iPhone/iPad + Windows PC

In a previous company when we were looking at precisely this problem, building out multiple platform support, we did UX studies where this question in particular came up. The vast majority of people said they wanted apps to act consistently across devices. Most people on the planet use Windows with Android, statistically speaking, which are not similar devices at all, at least on Apple platforms you can use Swift for…

I find it very hard to believe that majority of people prefer app consistency over platform consistency.

One example, I'm pretty sure there are thousands more: Why does every UI detail, except the logo, of Spotify looks and feels different in Android, Android Auto and PC/laptop? Because Spotify did not study what the market wants?

Re: We're forking Flutter

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note, this has nothing to do with your app or this specific discussed GUI, but this is something I have noticed over time... I think that what is commonly seen by devs as complaining and being overly concerned with details that don't matter is instead a some of the time advocacy for doing things the right way for the sake of it. It is totally possible to build things that meet the bare minimum requirements for user r…

It's more than there is no evidence of an issue, so why pretend that there is? The "right" way is entirely subjective, unless you can give me some objective criteria for what it should be.

The issue in this case is pretty plainly that the application does not subscribe to the conventions of its host UI. I'm sure there is no objective reason why we need to conform to any convention, except that there is one.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a previous company when we were looking at precisely this problem, building out multiple platform support, we did UX studies where this question in particular came up. The vast majority of people said they wanted apps to act consistently across devices. Most people on the planet use Windows with Android, statistically speaking, which are not similar devices at all, at least on Apple platforms you can use Swift for…

I find it very hard to believe that majority of people prefer app consistency over platform consistency. One example, I'm pretty sure there are thousands more: Why does every UI detail, except the logo, of Spotify looks and feels different in Android, Android Auto and PC/laptop? Because Spotify did not study what the market wants?

Spotify looks much similar between devices than it does to any specific platform. Does it use Material on Android and Fluent on Windows? No, it uses the same sort of styling on both. Don't mistake UI changes for screen size responsiveness, for actual platform specific nativity.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than there is no evidence of an issue, so why pretend that there is? The "right" way is entirely subjective, unless you can give me some objective criteria for what it should be.

The issue in this case is pretty plainly that the application does not subscribe to the conventions of its host UI. I'm sure there is no objective reason why we need to conform to any convention, except that there is one.

Then that is subjective too and not really worth caring about, because it comes down to a matter of taste. You like platform conventions, but most people we surveyed simply don't care, the fallacy of vocal minorities and all.
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