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Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

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Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#691
post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over here I'm pretty sure that's the only rule. Having whoever came there first go sounds like it could get very confusing in even vaguely ambiguous cases.

It really isn't. When there's a "tie", one human waves the other to go.

Especially since Covid it seems like the rule is "If everyone else is stopped, I can blow right through the stop sign. They'll wait."

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#693
post #457

Uhh.... thinking ahead of risks, and especially hidden cyclists and pedestrians is something that is taught in basic drivers ed here in Sweden. How can this not be the fault of the car? It should have realized that, yes, I am completely blind regarding whoever comes out from behind the truck, I should slow down. I guess there are some qualifications here. If there was a severely low probability of a cyclist there, an…

Agreed. Where I live, you cannot take the drive test to get your provisional license (allowing drivers to drive without the supervision of a fully licensed driver) without passing a 'hazards test' which involves a bunch of (crappy) videos with situations like these where you have to click the mouse when it is safe for you to start moving the car. Unsafe intersections are a reality. Cyclists and pedestrians (and other vehicles) being obscured from view is a reality. I can't get my license if I can't show I can make safe decisions handling these situations. I can't have even a low speed crash into someone and try to deny culpability by saying the intersection was unsafe or that a cyclist or pedestrian broke the rules. It is still my responsibility as the person in control of dangerous machinery. I find it very frustrating that it's a common sentiment to allow driverless cars to hurt people with those things as a justification. If these semi or supposedly fully autonomous cars can't work within the realities of the roads on which they drive, they shouldn't be driving.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the roads and cars were iteratively improved in a co-evolving way. Early cars with huge wheels could traverse cow-paths and mud and weren't very fast. (And you opened fences. :-)

Maybe it partially explains why cars hurt/kill so many people every single day? I agree with GP: automating everything and removing humans from the equation would be a much better solution. Unfortunately it's not practical because it's not profitable.

Yes, its definitely a conspiracy and not because we can barely manage the non-intelligent infrastructure we have now.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#696
post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more efficient though. But if you say you want to avoid at all costs, and assuming there are more people like you out there, maybe we should just start _charging that cost_.

What do you mean by efficient? When I lived in Austin, we lived in a neighborhood where the (only) train picked up, and it dropped me off 5 blocks from my office downtown. It was an extraordinarily pleasant period of my life. But even then, in ideal conditions, it still took longer than driving, and I had to time my departures to avoid waiting 15-30 minutes at the station. I'm definitely in favor of re-designing our…

It's more efficient for society as a whole. Public transit simply moves more people using less space and less energy, causing fewer deaths, while also being more equitable to boot.

And your comment noted, it's a godsend for the mind. I've moved to a country with public transit and haven't commuted by car in the last 5 years. Daily driving was destroying me.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public transportation > Safety Pick one. Danger doesn't come only from other vehicles.

No idea why the downvotes. In my city (Seattle) there has been a dozen violent attacks in the last few months ranging from a couple being beaten with a hammer, a stabbing to a gun shooting. You aren’t likely to be beaten with a hammer while driving your own car that’s for sure

Quick Google search tells me 28 people lost their lives due to traffic in Seattle in 2023.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#698
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can drive in 12 minutes surely the walk itself isn't that long. Public transport is never going to be able to compete over a short distance. I used to commute 1.5 hours each way on the train from Wollongong to Sydney. The alternative drive takes the same or longer, depending on traffic. Hundreds and hundreds of people do this trip every day (and the equivalent from Newcastle). Another period of my life was liv…

Public transportation cannot compete over long distances either as they stop dropping people off anywhere close to home once you leave the city. They are only able to complete within a city at medium range where they special lanes.

It can, when cities are not built with dumb land use patterns.

I am moving to an apartment 50km away from my workplace. Commuting by car or by train will take around the same time (~50 min door-to-door), but the car will be subject to random traffic, hunting for parking spot, stress, etc. Oh, and the train is several times cheaper.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#699
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is a hostility between drivers and bikers and bikers and cars, where they both build up resentment and settled for this hostile middle ground where they both treat the others poorly. Not to mention plenty of people in both are just dumb or ignorant of their surroundings

Just to nitpick a little, let's use the word cyclists, not bikers. I feel that bikers actually obey traffic signs more than cyclists do.

Sounds like you're deliberately using a longer, more activist-sounding word to "other" people you don't like.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#700
post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does 4 stop sign mean cars have priority over cyclists? Sounds weird reasoning. But not living in this country I don't understand who would have priority if everybody has a stop sign. Is it just a priority based on power? 18 wheeler > Buses > Cars > motorbikes > cyclists ?

it isn't priority by vehicle type, but by time that you arrive at the stop sign. everyone has to follow the rules equally. approach the sign, come to a complete stop, whoever was there first goes. if the intersection is full, then opposite pairs alternate with whoever is going straight getting right of way, followed by whoever's turning.

This is not true in Idaho. A stop sign is a yield for bikes. They call this the "potato" laws.

The practical reality of this is that if you're stopped at a stop sign, a bike may be coming from behind and will pass you on the right as you're trying to make a right turn.

AIUI, in this situation the bike has the right of way.

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