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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#691

Post by zaroth »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #580
zaroth wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just long tap and uninstall them? It’s not analogous to the Windows Start Menu showing ads you can’t turn off. What are the nags? I also don’t use Apple TV and don’t recall being nagged to use it. The only thing that annoys me is the prompt to “finish setting up” my phone when I don’t want to turn on Siri. I get the prompt a few times and then it gives up trying to get me to turn on Siri and stays happily disabled…

>So just long tap and uninstall them? It’s not analogous to the Windows Start Menu showing ads you can’t turn off. On the contrary, it's exactly analogous to Windows start menu ads as they are just icons that you can tap/right-click and uninstall, exactly like on Apple. But I do love the HN double standards here: Apple ads: "Pfff, just tap and uninstall, nothing newsworthy here." Windows ads that you can also right-c…

If that’s the case for Windows ads (I don’t actually know) then I totally agree the response is highly overblown there too!

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#692

Post by rosnd »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #686
rosnd wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's silly, the userspace you are talking about is strictly useless on phones. Every single attempt at building a reasonable mobile userspace for GNU/Linux has been a complete failure. What would that even look like? Almost all graphical GNU/Linux tools depend on X11, which is completely unsuited for phones. But if you want, you can totally install all the GNU userspace tools on Android. Nothing is stopping yo…

Nevertheless, there is something people call "Linux" that is a full OS (rather than just a kernel). Android differs substantially from that. Just semantics.

Yes, but that is fundamentally incompatible with phones! It's an oxymoron, like a Windows 2000 phone.

Marricks's comment simply does not make any sense if we're to use that definition of "Linux".

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#693

Post by nonethewiser »

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

This topic usually seems to miss some pragmatism. Regardless of whether or not Apple's approach is _good_ (and it most certainly isnt, except for Apple), they can do it. We can stop pontificating on whether their official position makes sense. It doesnt matter - they are doing it.

The real questions are whether buying Apple is worth it. And if there are any roadblocks for the competition that could be removed.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#694

Post by chrisseaton »

xdennis wrote: post #492
chrisseaton wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want the option to control my devices. So don’t buy an iPhone. You know that’s not the offer.

There are many regulations already in place to protect consumer rights. The idea that you can influence companies by not buying is an illusion. The only real solution to anti-competitive practices is legislation. It used to be that when you bought a computer you could run any program you wanted. No one thought this needed to be enshrined in law until Apple thought to restrict what you can do with your own devices. We…

> The idea that you can influence companies by not buying is an illusion.

People didn’t buy New Coke so it went away.

If people didn’t buy the iPhone you can be certain Apple would change.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#695

Post by blululu »

yobbo wrote: post #690
dalbasal wrote: post #679

Kettle. Pot. Black. Monopolistic practices is what Spotify is, not just something it does. Recently they went about buying podcasts. The idea was/is to kill off the free protocol and centralise podcasts under their control... That way, listeners, advertisers and podcasters would all have to live by spotify's rules. Like streaming music. Sure. Apple give themselves every advantage, cream the market, etc. They have a m…

It's not technically a monopoly, but in so far as it might become one, it is someone else's responsibility to tweet and complain about it. And there is a difference in scale between Apple's control and everyone else's.

In the case of Apple I think if you look at the mobile phone usage of people in the top 25% of incomes in America you would find that they are well over 80% market share. While this is a somewhat contrived segmentation, it is also most important segment for a lot of businesses. Monopoly power is typically assessed by the doj at a regional level so it is not unprecedented to arrive at monopoly issues on the basis of a portion of a larger market. The novelty here is about switching costs and bundling.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#696

Post by chrisseaton »

xdennis wrote: post #498
kaashif wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment still doesn't answer the question "Why do you need to ban other people from buying them?" I think it's a good question that deserves an answer.

Because it's anti-competitive. Society is advanced when companies have to compete and not just collect taxes from other companies who are trying to do something. The Apple tax is not advancing anything. It's just a stranglehold on innovation promoted with FUD about how running programs is insecure despite the fact that this isn't applied to desktop/laptop computers.

Apple developing a more secure platform is an innovation and advancement. If the iPhone isn’t the right choice for you buy one of the other thousand phones on the market, and leave other people alone.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#698

Post by chrisseaton »

xdennis wrote: post #487
anomaly_ wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you seriously think is a majority opinion you need to get out more. The average person wants strong device security, look at the press and angst attracted by cybercrime in recent times.

The discussion is about control. No one is saying devices should be less secure. If you ask people "should you be able to run any program you want on your devices?" I doubt people would answer "yes, on computers, but on phones I should only be able to run what Tim Apple allows me to".

Most people would answer ‘I’m happy with what’s on the App Store thanks I have no desire to use anything else’.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#699

Post by dalbasal »

JanSt wrote: post #688
dalbasal wrote: post #679

Kettle. Pot. Black. Monopolistic practices is what Spotify is, not just something it does. Recently they went about buying podcasts. The idea was/is to kill off the free protocol and centralise podcasts under their control... That way, listeners, advertisers and podcasters would all have to live by spotify's rules. Like streaming music. Sure. Apple give themselves every advantage, cream the market, etc. They have a m…

I feel like Apple is a much stronger offender than Spotify. You can literally not use billions of devices on this planet for your app* if you don't send something like a 25-50% cut of all your possible profits (15-30% of revenue(!)) to them. That makes apple effectively (in monetary terms) an owner of many businesses they shouldn't own. * no, not any application can run fine in safari

Apple is a much bigger company than Spotify. In. fact, it's quite impressive how monopolistic they managed to become for their size. There are a lot of monopolies and wanna be monopolies about. That's why big tech profit margins are so high.

All I am saying is that if your business model is entirely based on market monopolisation, to the extent that spotify's model is... go f##$ yourself. Yes, Apple charges you a take-it-or-leave-it fee. Does that "makes apple effectively an owner of many businesses they shouldn't own?" Maybe. But if it does, then Spotify is an effective owner of Black Sabbath. Should Spotify own Black Sabbath?

In many industries, Google & FB are "effectively an owner." Without their advertising, many businesses can't function. Lots of startups, even established businesses have to advertise on adwords. Google can also takes a massive* cut.

Apple has all the best customers. You can't have a great online business without apple users. That's why Google pay Apple >$100bn pa to be their default search engine. Apple also do this to spotify. Spotify do it to music artists. They want to do it to podcasters.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#700

Post by aussieshibe »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #499
aussieshibe wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? I heard an argument like this a lot at the start of discussions about whether we should be able to choose to WFH in the longer term. "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. It might just be me, and I'll de…

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? You can always Jailbreak your device? I think Apples response to your argument would be that it isn't the technically aware user that is trying to get control over their device that is the problem, its apps being used by those with no technical…

So make it difficult to do. Add a bunch of warnings.

This option lets hackers into yr phone to steal yr nudes click OK to continue. Are you SURE? Check this box if you're sure. Check this box if you're just clicking every box to get through this to cancel, or wait thirty minutes to continue. Type "I GET IT MR APPLE BRING ON THE VIRII" and tap continue to continue. Get any Gold badge on HackerRank to continue. Put your phone in the microwave on HIGH for 30 minutes to continue.

...

...

Good. If you are reading this, it means you did not microwave your phone. You have passed the test. A fully clothed Apple representative is waiting for you in your car. Do not look directly into his eyes. Follow his directions to travel to our Appcave. After performing a gravity search for security reasons, he will grant you control over your device.

Something like that.

Johnny Tech-No might be able to navigate the checkboxes, he might even get through the trick one where you have to wait 30 minutes. There's no way he's getting Gold on HackerRank without having the know how to safely use a rooted phone. Surely.

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