To be maybe controversial... I'm still thinking about it, but I do wonder if diverse casting works in European fantasy stories. The problem I have is that it generally pulls me out of the experience/ makes it less immersive. I welcome diverse castings in modern shows (though we don't need every show to follow a template 'diverse' casting). A common counter argument is, well you can suspend your disbelief and imagine…
I think the main problem is not the fact that they included divers cast. The main problem of modern shows is that they make it one of their main features. If the story and acting are good most people would not care of skin color. If diverse character are included organically into story - that is even better.
IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
691–700 of 841 posts
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#692Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#693Earlier quoted context omitted.
there is always an inherent bit of arrogance anytime someone reworks the works of the original creator, so i'm still not sure what you're distinction is. just by attempting to update/modify the story signals you think your version is better. arrogance.
There's a difference in several orders of magnitude, to me, in adapting an unknown stage play into a movie (for example) vs adapting Tolkien. In the former, you could argue your own creative vision might be "better" (in the loose sense), given the lack of popular success of the source. In the later, it'd be a fair amount of hubris to assume you can make something more beloved than Tolkien's works.
Hubris, arragance, etc. You're coming back to words that mean the same thing. Just because it's a work you personally are not familiar does not make it more/less egregious that someone has taken the material in their own direction from the original. It's just that you have a personal connection to the orginal and may or may not like the reworked version.
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would never think of a movie were Kunta Kinte is Dutch and is portrait by Chris Hemsworth Kunta Kinte was a slave in a story that heavily dealt with slavery, set in a time and setting where slavery was race-based, for an audience somewhat familiar with the history of that time and setting. If you made him Dutch and portrayed by Chris Hemsworth you'd have to include in your movie all kinds of extra exposition and…
> did not involve characters where their race was either important to I think the appearances of a character is quite important if the author took the time to describe it, don't you think? Would a Little women adaptation where the three women are two trans gender people, one Black, one Asian and one South American person that identifies as woman, be a good idea? We all know what "Little women" is about, we all expect…
> That's exactly my point.
> A black fairy is not an issue because she is black, but because it's a plot hole that the original story don't have.
I just watched a couple trailers for the new Pinocchio movie and they included a scene with the fairy.
She's dressed in glowing white sparkly clothes, has translucent sparkly wings, a wand with a star on the end that is clearly a magic wand, is surrounded by sparkles, transfigured Pinocchio, and it looks like she travels in some sort of amorphous flowing light blob.
The amount of extra exposition and world building needed to let the audience know that the character is a fairy is zero.
Here's a photo [1].
[1] https://www.instyle.com/news/cynthia-erivo-blue-fairy-live-a...
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#695Good god! It must be really hard to make anything these days. If you don't put enough people of color, people will shout of bigotry. If you include a few, some will accuse of wokeness and review bomb it to hell. I'm just glad that the show got made!
People are more pissed off about the feminist bullshit in the show. Galadriel a warrior? Give me a fucking break, puke.
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#696Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name 10? I'm actually asking in good faith because I can't recall any "to white" race swapping in the past few years. All the ones I can think of were Ann Boleyn, the little mermaid, the coming beauty and the beast, the recent terrible resident evil, etc.
The Ghost in the Shell reboot with Scarlett Johansson
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#697Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Could a random village have a black resident, maybe a sailor or member of a trade expedition that happened to settle there? Absolutely. No, because they would have died from the novel diseases the village would have had. There's a reason why when Europeans went anywhere they died by the boat load and pretty much everyone they brought back to Europe also died. It's always fun to remember that Pocahontas died in Engl…
The Middle East and North Africa had frequent contact with Europe. When thousands of Europeans went on crusade to the Middle East they didn’t all drop dead. The Romans went everywhere. Berber pirates even raided for slaves as far north as Iceland. This is simply not an issue. The Americas was a different situation, they’d been isolated from Eurasia for tens of thousands of years. In Middle Earth the Numenorians had e…
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#698Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if you restrict "black" to mean African Americans, that subculture has existed in its own right quite long enough for new stories to have been formed surely? The wikipedia article on African American literature would certainly suggest there's plenty to choose from.
> The wikipedia article on African American literature would certainly suggest there's plenty to choose from. Absolutely, I recognize I might just be unaware, and that's probably because they're not made into big budget movies and very much should be. I'd also love to see that. And to be clear, I'm in 100% agreement that I want to see and think there should be a lot more of their stories represented and made into big…
I read Tolkien, because my mother was a nerd, and shared her love of sci-fi/fantasy with me. I presume she got her exposure to sci-fi/fantasy at university (graduated 1973), despite attending an HBCU. I really do wonder who introduced her to Tolkien.... I can't say I've ever consumed any "high fantasy"-like stories of African origin.
>>>If the experience of an Afro American child is Marvel Comics, Disney movies, and Tolkien stories, and you continue to exclude them from the characters, it just seems wrong.
This is a bizarre line of thought that has really only emerged in the past ~15 years or so, IMO. Growing up, I never once looked at Sean Connery as James Bond and thought "I can't relate to this guy because his skin is too light." My favorite Marvel character in the early 90s wasn't Blade or Black Panther, it was Cable.
All of this cultural squabbling is the fault of a loud demographic of predominantly-young, emotionally-immature, college-brainwashed intersectionalists, deep in a the Hollyweird bubble. We have members of the black community who are critical of this nonsense, but they are often marginalized by the mainstream. JustSomeGuy on YouTube (a black guy from Chicago) shits all over the "woke" LOTR community: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy089HU5Ksc
Also Eric D. July ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhFvd5vkB8o ) who calls out modern "diversity" characters as "tokenized": they're not actually black/minority characters, they're just the exact same white characters with a lazy skin-color/sexual orientation change. That's why Eric July went and created his own entirely-new comic book universe, which pre-sold $3M+ dollars of comics in just a few weeks. Almost no coverage from mainstream comic websites, and discussion of his success is banned on the major comic sub-Reddits.
>>>And maybe this is my point as well, if you write fantasy, but your experience is American, why wouldn't you include people of all color in your story? But if you did, you'd one hundred percent get some folks come out and say that fantasy stories are European inspired and should only have white people in them.
I think this is a strawman. I've never heard such criticism for Game of Thrones. My understanding is Westeros is based on the War of the Roses period in England, but the world is still built with other regions and non-white cultures (Dothraki = obvious not-Mongolians, etc...). But if they had cast Wesley Snipes as Eddard Stark, there would be a rightful uproar.
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
That centers race a bit much. There weren't black people in medieval Europe, but nor were there white people. We're projecting contemporary racial categories onto a past where they didn't exist. The question of whether there were black people in Europe is akin to asking what did people there think of the USSR. That said, yes, people we'd currently code as black existed in Europe, though disproportionately in entrepot…
> There weren't black people in medieval Europe But there definitely were.[1] Also, the idiots complaining about black elves are racist morons. There were, in fact, black elves in Tolkien's world. Though never depicted as such by artists, Eöl the Dark Elf (who was not Moriquendë, i.e. not a member of the Moriquendi or the Elves of Darkness) probably wasn't white. In The Silmarillion, Tolkien goes out of his way to de…
Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power
#700Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, in Tolkien's case it was meant to be proto European mythology. It would also look out of place to place a lot of European or Asian characters in a proto African mythology story. I don't think it's racist to have a story set in a place where peoples of a particular race are all that habitate there. The modern world is just that, modern. A medieval fantasy world has to play by those rules, in its own sort of ways…
Actually, European and Asian characters are definitely going to be relevant to a lot of African mythologies. The Middle East and Europe were right there and there was a lot of interactions. The same goes for early europe. Plenty of people from either. There were Roman emperors who were indigenous to (Northern) Africa.
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2016/05/ancient-dna-study-find...