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IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

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Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue with the Rings of Power and similar things isn't the anachronistic racial composition of the cast. Note that it's a myth that everyone in pre-modern Europe was white. This is a white supremacist trope easily proven wrong by, say, digging into the representation of POC in medieval European art. https://www.npr.org/2021/05/06/994325620/going-medieval-on-w... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/5-myths-a…

That centers race a bit much. There weren't black people in medieval Europe, but nor were there white people. We're projecting contemporary racial categories onto a past where they didn't exist. The question of whether there were black people in Europe is akin to asking what did people there think of the USSR. That said, yes, people we'd currently code as black existed in Europe, though disproportionately in entrepot…

> There weren't black people in medieval Europe

But there definitely were.[1]

Also, the idiots complaining about black elves are racist morons. There were, in fact, black elves in Tolkien's world. Though never depicted as such by artists, Eöl the Dark Elf (who was not Moriquendë, i.e. not a member of the Moriquendi or the Elves of Darkness) probably wasn't white. In The Silmarillion, Tolkien goes out of his way to describe Eöl's son as having white skin. There's no reason to do that unless his son was notably distinct in this way from his father.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors#Moors_of_Iberia

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only part of the depiction he’s complaining about is race, though.

> The only part of the depiction he’s complaining about is race Am I? Are you sure? Can you quote me on that please? The blue fairy is an important part of my culture, at least for me. If someones rewrites it using all the power of a conglomerate like Disney, that puts at risk our shared culture and heritage. For me she's gonna be a woman with blue air, for someone younger it will be a bald black woman, that has no d…

> What would happen if a Chinese company made a movie where Martin Luther King is an Albanian immigrant who came to Italy with the Vlora ship in 1991 to become a supporter of immigrants rights and got killed by a mobster in a fight over a pool game?

You're not very good at arguing your case. I see where you're trying to go with this, but that analogy sucks.

Look, Disney just ruins everything. I grew up with the A.A. Milne books for Winnie the Pooh. As a child, I had a picture in my mind for all of the characters, appearance, voice, manner. Disney's Winnie the Pooh is not it, and they have such cultural dominance that their vision can seem to overwrite the original.

I've had to just learn to not sweat it. Blade Runner 2049? Excellent movie, but I do not consider it canon. The original had a sense of humor and hopefulness that 2049 just absolutely lacked.

My Disney+ shows that I'll have access to Pinocchio on September 8th. Not sure if you have already seen it, but if not, give it a watch with an open mind. You might like it.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only part of the depiction he’s complaining about is race Am I? Are you sure? Can you quote me on that please? The blue fairy is an important part of my culture, at least for me. If someones rewrites it using all the power of a conglomerate like Disney, that puts at risk our shared culture and heritage. For me she's gonna be a woman with blue air, for someone younger it will be a bald black woman, that has no d…

> For me she's gonna be a woman with blue air, for someone younger it will be a bald black woman Weird that you spend more time complaining about her skin color than her hair. > Try doing that with Sherlock Holmes and see what happens. Shit yeah, sign me up. > What would happen if a Chinese company made a movie where Martin Luther King is an Albanian immigrant who came to Italy with the Vlora ship in 1991 to become a…

From Wikipedia:

Collodi often used the Italian Tuscan dialect in his book. The name Pinocchio is a combination of the Italian words pino (pine), and occhio (eye); Pino is also an abbreviation of Giuseppino, the diminutive for Giuseppe (the Italian form of Joseph); one of the men who greatly influenced Collodi in his youth was Giuseppe Aiazzi, a prominent Italian manuscript specialist who supervised Collodi at the Libreria Piatti bookshop in Florence. Geppetto, the name of Pinocchio's creator and “father,” is the diminutive for Geppo, the Tuscan pronunciation of ceppo, meaning a log, stump, block, stock or stub.

It seems to me there's a lot of cultural references here that are elided for non-Tuscan audiences. I imagine that could be frustrating. I think it would not be easy for Americans to be sympathetic to this kind of thing.

Hey, this is a cool song. It's a bit how Europeans can feel about American hegemonic cultural dominance: https://youtu.be/Rr8ljRgcJNM

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#634
post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a distinction between creative -license and -arrogance.

there is always an inherent bit of arrogance anytime someone reworks the works of the original creator, so i'm still not sure what you're distinction is. just by attempting to update/modify the story signals you think your version is better. arrogance.

There's a difference in several orders of magnitude, to me, in adapting an unknown stage play into a movie (for example) vs adapting Tolkien.

In the former, you could argue your own creative vision might be "better" (in the loose sense), given the lack of popular success of the source.

In the later, it'd be a fair amount of hubris to assume you can make something more beloved than Tolkien's works.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#635
post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not alienating their "core" audience - they were never the major target audience. The reason why most of the Marvel TV shows, Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Rings of Power, Halo etc. all appear to be "dumbed" down is because the target audience are teens and young adults. It's the "catch them young" tactic - all these streaming services are competing to get teens hooked to their streaming services. The next gen s…

This is like saying Wall-E or Inside Out are dumb movies because they need to hook young audiences. It's not an either or situation here. Shows can be written to target many, many groups of audiences. They can be "smart" while still appealing to the masses. Also, it's not so much dumbed down as just terrible acting and terrible writing. Cinematics are great, but cinematics are the only thing that's great.

Not dumb but "dumbed" down to target a certain age group. And I agree that they can try to be "smart" but there's the practical aspect of it - they are competing hard with many streaming platform (and many will fail by the time this industry stabilises) and talent is at a premium, thus the obvious compromise to go for the easy and more assured targets.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#636
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this theoretical, or are you saying this actually happened? I haven't seen this latest show, but for example I had no problems with nonwhite characters in The Witcher. What is a European fantasy show anyway, it's not like they take place in literal Europe? Somehow nobody complains about loss of immersion when characters are changed to white, which happens 100x more often.

Can you name 10? I'm actually asking in good faith because I can't recall any "to white" race swapping in the past few years. All the ones I can think of were Ann Boleyn, the little mermaid, the coming beauty and the beast, the recent terrible resident evil, etc.

A current example is the movie Bullet Train, where Brad Pitt plays a character originally written as Japanese.

But there are plenty of others, if you search for "whitewashing in movies" you can find lists.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#637

Not sure if IMDb has a history of deleting negative user reviews made in good faith, but worth noting that IMDb and The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (TV series) are both owned by Amazon.

They didn't seem to delete user reviews for Lightyear made by all the bigots that were offended by having two women kissing in the movie so it seems that there's some preferential treatment for Amazon properties. And deleting negative reviews by bigots at least would be more defensible than deleting negative reviews from fans of Tolkien who take issue with the treatment of the work they love. EDIT: I still haven't se…

It feels more like the 2016 Ghostbusters remake, to be honest. Immature men going nuts over a new entry in a franchise that they have fond childhood memories of, simply because the new entry is "same but different" in a way that touches certain insecurities.

(To be sure, I doubt that an Amazon Prime series can reach the quality of "the" LotR adaption, ever. But the hysterical screaming about the series is just childish.)

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#638

Well, we live in the age where the story hardly matters. I saw Top Gun the other day, and was shocked at how bad it was. The aerial stuff was superb, but everything else looked so amateurish. Acting was hideous, the story was so predictable and boring there was hardly any substance to the film. And yet it got an 8,5 rating at imdb.

Matt Damon went into some detail about why movies are like this nowadays: https://youtu.be/gF6K2IxC9O8

People keep circulating this but it's not very illuminating when he doesn't mention streaming services at all.

It's not like we went from theaters + DVDs to just threaters.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#639

To be maybe controversial... I'm still thinking about it, but I do wonder if diverse casting works in European fantasy stories. The problem I have is that it generally pulls me out of the experience/ makes it less immersive. I welcome diverse castings in modern shows (though we don't need every show to follow a template 'diverse' casting). A common counter argument is, well you can suspend your disbelief and imagine…

Well, in Tolkien's case it was meant to be proto European mythology. It would also look out of place to place a lot of European or Asian characters in a proto African mythology story. I don't think it's racist to have a story set in a place where peoples of a particular race are all that habitate there. The modern world is just that, modern. A medieval fantasy world has to play by those rules, in its own sort of ways…

Actually, European and Asian characters are definitely going to be relevant to a lot of African mythologies. The Middle East and Europe were right there and there was a lot of interactions.

The same goes for early europe. Plenty of people from either. There were Roman emperors who were indigenous to (Northern) Africa.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly deny that middle earth is not based on Europe? Everything Tolkien wrote was drenched in that reference frame.

Middle-Earth most definitely is not based on Europe and claiming such is unsupportable. The geography and map of Middle-Earth is absolutely nothing like Europe, no similarities whatsoever, and no geological process known could make it similar. On the other hand, Middle-Earth is strikingly similar to a mirror image of North America.

I didn't say based IN I said based ON. Those are similar sounding but completely different. The former implies it's actually based in the same country and lands as Europe. Whereas the later implies it's merely inspired by to some degree.
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