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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#691

Post by Jon_Lowtek »

pkulak wrote: post #259
squarefoot wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

Holy crap, Europe needs to get off natural gas yesterday.

Not only the EU. The USA are sanctioning a lot of things, but they still importing russian oil.

And everything not send to EU and USA is bought by China.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#692

Post by natmaka »

aksss wrote: post #557
DubiousPusher wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no precedent in human history for two fairly equal powers engaging in a conflict and one side refusing in totality to use almost any weapon at its disposal and certainly not one that an enemy has already used. Japan did not nuke America back in 1945 because it did not have a nuke and had lost all air superiority.

I may get downvoted into oblivion for saying this, but -- I think it's wishful thinking to imagine soldiers will make the 'right' decision when the call comes. During the Tiananmen Square debacle/massacre, interviews with people there indicate that many/most never imagined the "people's" army would act against them - they were considered on the same side. Yet act against them they did. Similarly, I think you see some…

For many (most?), even cops, heavily beating up people who didn't nor do anything violent or amoral/immoral isn't easy.

Isn't violent repression nearly always triggered by protesters' violence (sometimes only by a fraction of them, sometimes by people acting up in order to trigger repression, sometimes through misinterpretation or some fake-flag operation...) ?

Isn't a well-rehearsed then conducted (in order to avoid and isolate provocations) peaceful protest efficient against it? Moreover even if it isn't efficient the net result (w/o any massive manipulation through mass-media) empowers the protesters through bystanders sympathy.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#693

Post by tsimionescu »

thelittleone wrote: post #575
dudeinhawaii wrote: post #428

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

This reminds me of the "fear" scene from Apocalypto [1]. Living in fear is not really living in my opinion, I'd rather die fighting for what I believe in than live in fear. Speaking of bloody nose reminds me of boxing. You get hit and you hit back or your opponent won't respect you. You will fear opponent, they will sense it and capitalize. 1. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3H_xsdr-Vs

Then please, leave for Ukraine and help the people there. Even as a non-combatant, you can do a lot of good.

Don't ask others to go to war, go yourself.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#694

Post by shmerl »

slaw wrote: post #690
shmerl wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use World War II as a study case for that. Nazis could have been stopped sooner, instead some tried to appease them until it was too late.

When do you think Germans should be stopped and who was going to stop them?

After they attacked Poland. Second question is self answered since they eventually were stopped, so start from that list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#War_breaks_out_in...

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#695

Post by steve_adams_86 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #191
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I read too much scifi, but can't nukes be intercepted in key locations? They might be able to land them in more remote places, but wouldn't hitting cities be difficult? I was under the impression developed nations have missile interception technologies. But yeah, I've read books not based in reality and watched some netflix in my days, so I could be in fantasy land. Kind of sobering to write this out and realiz…

Aside from the numbers game, ICBMs used to be the fastest way to deliver a warhead, with the obvious drawback that anyone watching the horizon can see it coming from half a world away. Nuclear warheads have been further miniaturized since the cold war, it is now possible to fit them into cruise missiles. > The deployment of Kalibr missiles, long-range, low-flying, capable of carrying conventional or nuclear warheads,…

Like you I’m also a web developer with access to Wikipedia, but you did the legwork which I really appreciate. Thanks!

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#696

Post by steve_adams_86 »

unionpivo wrote: post #34
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I read too much scifi, but can't nukes be intercepted in key locations? They might be able to land them in more remote places, but wouldn't hitting cities be difficult? I was under the impression developed nations have missile interception technologies. But yeah, I've read books not based in reality and watched some netflix in my days, so I could be in fantasy land. Kind of sobering to write this out and realiz…

intercepting few (up to few dozen) missiles sure. Intercepting hundreds potentially thousands ? Not really.

I didn’t realize thousands was a possible measurement of missiles to intercept.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#697

Post by steve_adams_86 »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #41
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I read too much scifi, but can't nukes be intercepted in key locations? They might be able to land them in more remote places, but wouldn't hitting cities be difficult? I was under the impression developed nations have missile interception technologies. But yeah, I've read books not based in reality and watched some netflix in my days, so I could be in fantasy land. Kind of sobering to write this out and realiz…

The US and Russia long had a treaty which prohibited the development of anti-ballistic missile systems with narrow exceptions. While the treaty agreement effectively ended in 2002, it did effectively stop most ABM work in both countries for an extended period of time. Further, the problem has proven to be exceptionally difficult. The Strategic Defense Initiative, better known as "Star Wars," was an effort towards a c…

Thanks for this, it’s very eye opening. Definitely cranks up the anxiety during these uncertain times.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#698

Post by spawarotti »

lordnacho wrote: post #477
dudeinhawaii wrote: post #428

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

There's this concept in game theory that it's sometimes worth it to hurt yourself in order to hurt an uncooperative player. If you are always thinking "how do I minimize harm to myself" you get salamied to death. Same as in a poker game, you can't fold every time someone raises big, just because you don't know which times he actually has good cards. If you do he ends up with all your chips. Other thing is about MAD.…

There is a Kurzgesagt video about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyECrGp-Sw8

If you detonate all nukes you could destroy every city with population of over 100'000, worldwide. About 4'500 cities in total. You would still have around 1'500 nukes left. You would kill at least 3 billion people.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#699

Post by Teever »

Retric wrote: post #619
btilly wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Congressional testimony from a committee they created to study the problem, a SINGLE nuclear bomb set off to maximize the EMP effect would likely kill about 2/3 of the population of the Continental USA, with possible higher estimates up to 90%. Mostly through slow painful deaths like mass starvation. Why? Because it would knock out most of our cars, electronics, payment systems, farm machinery, and every…

Those estimates where not from a single nuke. “If the lights stay off for more than a year in this country, the Commission's estimate was the loss of life would run into the tens of millions, perhaps a great deal more.” Nationwide long term total blackout is unlikely for many reasons.

I think you underestimate the time needed to restore the entire grid if it were to be simultaneously destroyed.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#700

Post by fastball »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #673
pedrosorio wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A viable counter step would be to deny Russia air superiority in Ukraine and to attack any troops crossing the border from Belarus, for example. Not to go and attack the capital of Russia.

Yes, I don't understand why Biden is being shy about this.

You mean besides the reason that he is borderline senile and has been a completely ineffective president in every other regard besides Ukraine?
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