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$35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

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Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#691

Post by jancsika »

chrisseaton wrote: post #635
jancsika wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t get it - asking ‘can you reduce line item n by x’ is exactly the same thing as ‘can you reduce the bottom line by x’ "Can you reduce bottom line by x" is like saying, "the documentation is a bit vague, can you improve it please?" "Can you reduce line item n by x" is like saying, "there's no way the user could possibly intuit that the sampling period may be truncated to precisely hit the target value after t…

Just look at the total-cost-of-ownership. As long as I can afford the down payment and I can afford the monthly payment then I just want to reduce the total-cost-of-ownership for the car I want. In other words I want the dealer to optimise for that variable and as long as they meet my constraint for affording the down and monthly payments then I don't care how those vary as long as the optimisation goal is met. Line…

> In other words I want the dealer to optimise for that variable and as long as they meet my constraint for affording the down and monthly payments then I don't care how those vary as long as the optimisation goal is met.

But you would have already told them, "As long as I can afford..." So they'll spend the entire exchange trying to optimize for the maximum amount they think you can afford. They can try to convince you they've optimized when they really haven't, and they can try to pick a vehicle of a lower quality and persuade you that the price drop is the optimization.

If your response to every trick is to respond, "No, please try again to optimize for TCO," they'll eventually interpret your behavior as the equivalent of an ad-blocker. Then they'll either persuade you to reveal more data or move on to a customer who negotiates on their terms.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#692

Post by camjohnson26 »

leesec wrote: post #535
camjohnson26 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand has collapsed in the US for model 3 and looks incredibly weak in Europe and China at this point. There is no reason for this across the board price cut other than weak demand.

Lol. Best selling electric car in world last year with heaps of momentum that just got cheaper. Doesn't appear to be collapsing to me.

Well insideevs just posted the February sales numbers which are absolutely terrible. 5750 model 3s sold, down from around 6500 in January and 25,000 in December. That’s a collapse and that’s why they’re slashing prices now, even though there’s no evidence they can get the margins low enough to make a profit on this car.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-s-x-sales-february-2019/

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#693

Post by camjohnson26 »

Lapsed wrote: post #285
camjohnson26 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand has collapsed in the US for model 3 and looks incredibly weak in Europe and China at this point. There is no reason for this across the board price cut other than weak demand.

Where are you getting this from?

And as a follow up, insideevs just posted February’s numbers: 5750 model 3. That’s down from 6500 in January and over 25,000 in December and 18,000 in November.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-s-x-sales-february-2019/

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#694

Post by chrisseaton »

jancsika wrote: post #691
chrisseaton wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the total-cost-of-ownership. As long as I can afford the down payment and I can afford the monthly payment then I just want to reduce the total-cost-of-ownership for the car I want. In other words I want the dealer to optimise for that variable and as long as they meet my constraint for affording the down and monthly payments then I don't care how those vary as long as the optimisation goal is met. Line…

> In other words I want the dealer to optimise for that variable and as long as they meet my constraint for affording the down and monthly payments then I don't care how those vary as long as the optimisation goal is met. But you would have already told them, "As long as I can afford..." So they'll spend the entire exchange trying to optimize for the maximum amount they think you can afford. They can try to convince…

I don’t understand how you think it’s any different - you ask ‘can you reduce the price for the paint finish’ and I ask ‘can you reduce the bottom line price’. In both cases it’s the same reduction in their profit margin. Why do a dance around which line item it supposedly comes off?

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#695

Post by DoubleCribble »

gwbas1c wrote: post #426
donarb wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middlemen help you buy a car from competing dealers. Buying only from Tesla means you can’t negotiate for a better price.

The US is the only country that follows this scheme, and it's only certain manufacturers that let their franchises get away with that. Next time try buying a Honda or a Subaru. There's almost no wiggle-room in price.

Sorry, that's not true at all. There's often A LOT of wiggle room.

Insider Tip: The internet desk is usually separate from the floor desk at your average dealership. When you know exactly which car you want to buy, negotiate through the internet desk only at several dealerships. But be prepared to walk if they try to pull a bait & switch when you show up to purchase.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#696

Post by resters »

BoorishBears wrote: post #676
resters wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla could delay executing the loan for the first week to avoid the inconvenience you describe. Typical dealers want to execute the loan immediately because accepting a return is extremely rare, but for Tesla it's part of the business model to avoid needing a dealership in the first place, so it would make sense to set up the accounting in a way where the loan is locked in but not executed until the return period is…

I’m assuming you’re talking about dealer provided financing because in my case the loan had to be “executed” to get the car. I was issued a check for the amount of the car, and while the check had never been cashed canceling the check and loan and having it removed from my CR took weeks

I'm not an expert on the details, but I'm guessing that is a "legacy" finance issue. No reason why a contract couldn't be designed that treated the first week and the rest of the finance term differently, where the buyer agreed to both, and the return was greatly streamlined.

I think the biggest issue with a typical car loan is that the market value of the car decreases after it's driven off the lot, so Tesla must have some plan for dealing with that aspect of the first week returns. My guess is that they are declaring a vehicle "new" if it has under 500 miles on it, and they include the distance the car may be driven for delivery in that 500 mile "new" buffer. Thus if you take the car on a weekend getaway and return it with under 500 miles on it, it is still new (by definition) or at least as new as the Tesla that was driven 450 miles from a distribution center to a customer's door.

Normal dealers sell vehicles all the time that have been "demos" for sales people and may have a few hundred miles on them. They typically sell them for a bit below invoice, but a mint condition vehicle with It's possible that Telsa is doing something more clever than the above, but if not that's a fairly low cleverness way of accomplishing it. There is probably a mileage limit that one must stay under in the first week to be eligible for a return.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#697

Post by tibbon »

regularfry wrote: post #542
tibbon wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had the opposite experience. A friend took me for a drive in their model 3 recently. At one point we hit around 130mph, and it was the smoothest and quietest ride I’ve ever had at the speed. That being said the BMW 7s I’ve been in were all from the early 2000s, but I never found any other car to be as quiet as a Tesla.

That was a rough time to be in a 7 series. Bunch of new tech with horrible teething trouble.

Yea, that's a good point. It was... well, had a lot of features. Some of them worked. Some of the time. And plenty of sensors to let you know when they weren't. Except when the sensors were the thing that was bad.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#698

Post by zepearl »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #247
travisoneill1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The only factor is the convert price vs the stock price. If the stock price is lower, they will just take the cash and buy the stock on the open market at a better price.

Exactly. The bonds will be paid in cash at this point, no question.

Thx!

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#699

Post by tranchms »

webXL wrote: post #686
tranchms wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not correct. Panasonic owns the IP for these batteries. They have a contract with Tesla to produce for them, but Tesla’s demand is so high they can’t produce enough. Production is 24/7. Even if Panasonic wanted to they couldn’t sell to anyone else. I don’t know what kind of price negotiations they have, but current battery production is not profitable. This I know. Also, Panasonic just partnered with Toyota to…

Given that Tesla says they can deliver a $35k model 3 to you in 2 weeks, I'd say they better be able to produce enough. Perhaps we'll see that delivery window slowly increase. Don't they just need to keep leasing them more space at the factory? What's the bottleneck there?

OEM Equipment and MRO costs.

There are currently 4 steps in the manufacturing process, with a final inspection at the end. They have about 35 production lines in total, and will likely have over 60 when they finish. New lines will have higher output.

They run two 12 hour shifts a day, 7 days a week.

The bottle neck is MRO at the moment. Material costs are a factor, but I know nothing about that.

In the space of 3 years they implemented these 35 lines. Getting them up and running to meet the demand and timelines required massive investment, and cost savings measures were sidelined.

They’re just not beginning to figure out ways to cut costs in order to achieve profitability.

I don’t know if Tesla has a contract that dictates the cell price, but I know Panasonic production is not profitable at the moment. They will be, hopefully in the upcoming years.

Their battery production is the most state of the art. Not only the battery technology, but the manufacturing process. It’s unparalleled by a long shot. The scale is breathtaking. Around 3.5 million cells a day with a target over 10 million.

From what I know, bottle necks are costs. High equipment manufacturing costs, and high maintenance costs.

Space isn’t the issue. They have plenty of space.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#700

Post by webninja »

jiaweihli wrote: post #448
jumelles wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, Teslas don't have either of those...?

Hilariously enough, Carplay is actually standard on Camrys now (even the cheapest base model). What a weird time to buy a car.

It’s because Toyota couldn’t make a promising navigation system. They tried things like Scout GPS, “embedded nav”, and SDL.
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