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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#681

Post by happymellon »

drnick1 wrote: post #608
WalterBright wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was told by a car dealer service guy that if the touch screen went on the blink, the car would be totaled. (Since replacing it cost more than the car was worth.) I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, and put the auto custom software on that. Why reinvent the hardware?

> I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, The last thing I need is Apple spying on me when I am driving.

The principal is there though.

The power of a tablet is far more than is required for an infotainment system. Make a standard, like we used to have for radios and regulate everything to expose all the controls via a standard connection. Standard parts for replacing and sizes for fitting.

The only way we can have nice things is by regulating. I don't want proprietary tyres either.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#682

Post by simondotau »

smsm42 wrote: post #632
simondotau wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree with you in the hypothetical universe I think you’re imagining. But in this universe, that ship has long since sailed. Cars are software. They have been so for a long time. The only difference between a Tesla and an economy car from Stellantis is whether the software is well written or not. My wife has a 2015 Jeep Cherokee. For its purpose It’s actually quite a nice vehicle, s…

Cars have software. But I don't think cars are software. Can I apply a software update to make my Honda Accord into Tesla or Dodge Ram? > The only difference between a Tesla and an economy car from Stellantis is whether the software is well written or not. Is that actually true? I mean, assume I have access to all software in the world and all IP lawyers got kidnapped by aliens - could I just write a software for Ste…

> Cars have software. But I don't think cars are software. Can I apply a software update to make my Honda Accord into Tesla or Dodge Ram?

That's a disingenuously literal misinterpretation of what I said. I wasn't saying that a Tesla and some economy car are identical, only that they have in common the characteristic of being defined at their core by software. It should go without saying that software alone can't turn a Cherokee into a Model Y for the same reason that software alone can't turn a HomePod into an Apple Watch.

But there's an obvious difference between a good software experience and a poor one. Like in my wife's Cherokee, how the radio always turns on every time you start the car, no matter what you do. Like how the digital speedometer is completely concealed by any warning text that appears. Like how all window controls stop working as soon as any passenger opens their door after stopping the engine. This is all software, and I write this in response to rkagerer saying "no thank you" to cars getting meaningful software updates.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#683

Post by angry_octet »

hypfer wrote: post #614
rkagerer wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment Haed disagree. You've been bamboozled, too. Recalls of any kind are a signal to me the vehicle shipped half-baked. I'd rather have the car with slightly older features that took a little longer to release, but got it right before leaving the facto…

Why is this as downvoted as it is? Man. HN. This goddamn platform

Imagine having a car that pulls packages from npm or Docker hub whenever it gets a network connection. If there were cosmic justice that's what many HN users would get.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#684

Post by kakacik »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #653
carefree-bob wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the issue of longevity. Most people don't expect 20 year old laptops to keep working, but they expect 20 year old cars to keep working. The software defined vehicle is a disposable vehicle, and that means it better be cheap or someone is taking a depreciation bath.

Cars with 20yo computers do work tho.

Yeah but those were primitive (as in simple, more reliable) and hardened electronics, and you had tons of knobs to set most important things directly even if the screen would die completely.

Now its just a tablet glued to some annoying location and no physical controls. Do you expect a tablet to last 20 years battery notwithstanding, the touch to be perfectly sensitive for so long? Most people don't, for good reasons.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#685

Post by Nition »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #617
hedora wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the US, our overpriced EVs are cheaper than comparable ICE. They’re mostly big, and compete with 20mpg models. At $4/gallon, you’ll spend $40K on gasoline to drive a new ICE car 200K miles. The EV premium is typically $10-20K. These are all luxury cars, so a trimline upgrade is often $10K. EVs have particularly poor resale value (the technology improves rapidly), so if you’re price sensitive you can get a muc…

Model 3s are Honda Accord class, so compacts, not sub-compacts. I haven't seen many sub-compact EVs in the states beyond the Leaf and the Bolt. I’m kind of excited about the new BmW i3, which will be a more normal 3 series size and shape vs the old i3. I won’t buy it of course, I’ve decided I’m not replacing my i4 before a real self driving car is available. I can't imagine why NZ doesn't allow Chinese EVs in already…

We do have Chinese EVs here in NZ, the comment above is incorrect.

Although curiously, Nissan has stopped selling us the Leaf.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#686

Post by kakacik »

drnick1 wrote: post #604
neya wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

> Finally, there's the issue of privacy. Most manufacturers contract with analytics vendors to send your data back to them. You can't even turn it off. You absolutely can. Pull the fuse of the cellular modem aka "telematics unit" or even completely remove it. Some vehicles don't have a separate fuse, in which case you will need to physically unplug the modem. Do your research and don't buy any car where this can't be…

Well thats a nice theory but do you yourself give guarantee to all models that they will keep working after such potentially destructive 'hack' ? I don't think so. Its trivial for manufacturer to make it stop working because of ie some security blah and just having a big warning on the screen to go to the repair shop.

So a typical internet advice - don't listen to it uncritically, or not at all.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#687

Post by fetassdd »

WalterBright wrote: post #594
neya wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

I was told by a car dealer service guy that if the touch screen went on the blink, the car would be totaled. (Since replacing it cost more than the car was worth.) I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, and put the auto custom software on that. Why reinvent the hardware?

That’s nonsense. Tesla screen for example is $1800 Australian + GST.

Cheap? No. But not overly expensive all things considered.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#688

Post by Nevermark »

drnick1 wrote: post #608
WalterBright wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was told by a car dealer service guy that if the touch screen went on the blink, the car would be totaled. (Since replacing it cost more than the car was worth.) I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, and put the auto custom software on that. Why reinvent the hardware?

> I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, The last thing I need is Apple spying on me when I am driving.

Do you have a car now? A phone? If you are wearing pants you are being tracked right now!

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#689

Post by tokamak-teapot »

globular-toast wrote: post #629
sathackr wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. it's an argument that since EVs are heavier than fossil-fuel vehicles due to their batteries, that they generate more particulate emissions (brakes/tire dust) than fossil-fuel vehicles. it's a wrong argument, but it's still circulated in groups of factually-challenged people

Nobody said they generate more but simply that they generate some. Modern petrol engines output very little particulates so almost all the particulates are from tyres and brakes. Why would EVs produce any less?

The WSJ and Daily Mail both ran stories with headlines explicitly stating that they generate more particulates. I can't find any credible source stating the same, so I'm assuming the stories were the usual agenda fiction, but they do exist.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#690

Post by sigmoid10 »

Mashimo wrote: post #660
sigmoid10 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers have very little power in this space. Have you tried buying a non-premium car with physical buttons instead of touchscreens in recent years? There used to be hardly any option because carmakers all somehow decided this was the way forward, even though science clearly said it was making cars less safe. So if you needed a car and didn't have a ton of money, you could merely accept it. Only now that safety rat…

> Have you tried buying a non-premium car with physical buttons instead of touchscreens in recent years? They are coming back! Next VW ID generation will have them again :)

Precisely. But not because of consumers. Which is the whole point. Legislation and oversight make cars better and safer for consumers, not consumer buying choices.
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