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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#681

Post by ghssds »

School-Cotton wrote: post #627
ezoe wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is an ML model binary file created by using copyrighted work as its learning data, a derivative work of the copyrighted work? I don't think so.

This is the most fundamentally important question of AI-related law, and nobody knows the answer as it hasn't been tested by any court AFAIK (at least not in the US).

We already know the tribunal will take AI's side, not because of any justice or ethical reason but because of capitalism. They will interpret the law as saying whatever they want the law to say.

Re: End of Japanese community

#682

Post by mikkupikku »

rectang wrote: post #614
ecshafer wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They fired the inventor of Javascript as their CEO. They hired some grifter as their CEO who just keeps giving themselves more money. They keep throwing money at vanity side hustles. They purposefully confuse the Mozilla foundation with the browser, and have increasingly made the foundation redirect their funds to C level salaries and their own personal political passion projects that are not aligned with the Mozilla…

At least part of the Mozilla antagonism on HN comes from highly motivated culture war participants. The Brendan Eich situation was a seminal event, but the underlying reasons for it are why the grudge endures.

If Mozilla were consistently making good decisions in the years since then, nobody would be wasting their time with "What if Eich were still in charge?" The only reason anybody still talks about that ousting is because they have other more current grievances with Mozilla.

Also, the reason HN has so many people ready to gripe about Firefox is because HN still has a large number of people using Firefox. I never complain about technical or policy decisions from Chrome or Safari because I don't use those browsers! The only reason I have complaints about Mozilla is because I actually use Firefox.

Re: End of Japanese community

#683

Post by LaGrange »

apexalpha wrote: post #345
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

> As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this.

Not really painting us in good colors here, are you.

Re: End of Japanese community

#684

Post by LaGrange »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #322
rwmj wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of inability to read anything longer than a tweet and not wanting to put anything on record.

I'd say otherwise - it's a reach out to have a relationship. It's hard to have human relationships only by writing. Of course the best way to build it is to meet in person, but if impossible - it's always good to have a video call. If someone is frustrated, the following chats won't do much really. They have already built a wall, and we need to meet around it, not throw our letters over it.

> It's hard to have human relationships only by writing.

No, it's pretty easy, actually, people did that since writing was invented, with mediums much slower than a modern mailing list.

It _is_ much easier to manipulate people behind closed doors, as well as lie about what happened there.

Re: End of Japanese community

#685

Post by jameslk »

sameerds wrote: post #654

> Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. That has the same vibes as a customer support helpline that has no intention to actually help.

It may be viewed that way, but it’s also useful to empathize with someone and get more detail/nuance that can’t be conveyed simply over text. Especially when someone is not happy.

I usually do the same thing when the medium is text and someone is not happy. Tone conveys a lot of useful information. Even better if you can see a person and their body language.

I don’t think the cynical view of the staff person’s intentions is fair, though I don’t know the person’s history nor do I have dog in this fight.

Re: End of Japanese community

#686

Post by charlieyu1 »

barbazoo wrote: post #2

> They are all happened on the product server, not on staging server. I understand that this is mass destruction of our work and explicit violation to the Mozilla mission, allowed officially. Could this have been a mistake rather than a malicious act?

The damage is done when the mistake was allowed to happen.

Re: End of Japanese community

#687

Post by LaGrange »

janmalec wrote: post #282
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

How would you form this response to make it less condensending and patronizing? I won't judge if it is patronizing or not because I'm not very good at this kind of thing but would like to understand the issue.

"Fuck, sorry, we're going to take the bot behind the barn and shoot it. Hopefully one day we can make it up to you. Also the person responsible for this atrocity was just fired."

Or, alternatively, if you do not intend to even try to do better, at least be honest: "ok, bye."

Re: End of Japanese community

#688

Post by charlieyu1 »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #544
grvbck wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is horrifically patronizing after someone's volunteer work was effectively destroyed This, 100 %. "Your bot just destroyed 20 years of my work." "Naaaw, sorry you feel that way! Let's hop on a quick call so I can explain to you why you're wrong, mkay?" > It's one of those "they live among us" moments, where you realize that you're surrounded by psychopaths. Or has this kind of corporate language/attitude becom…

Yup, you get it. I wonder if cultural differences might play a role. I'm not from the USA, maybe this way of communicating is perfectly normal there and the rest of the word is just utterly baffled by it? Where I'm from this is how someone who has no respect for you deals with an inconvenience. Acknowledge no wrongdoing, make the situation about emotions rather than actions (sorry you feel this way), shift the conver…

I don’t know, I feel the Western cooperate culture found it reasonable to completely fuck people over without even understanding and then blame them for it

Re: End of Japanese community

#689

Post by charlieyu1 »

stephenlf wrote: post #525
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #515

I'm not sure why I clicked on this beyond just knowing it was going to be another Mozilla trainwreck and not being able to look away. But what was truly stunning to me was this comment thread. There are people here actually defending the following response: > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us t…

Talking face-to-face is absolutely the right response, though. Would you have preferred a canned apology?

No, the right response was to talk about it before making the changes.

Re: End of Japanese community

#690

Post by charlieyu1 »

kstenerud wrote: post #395
whilenot-dev wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about communication though, it's about community. Mozilla just introduced a bot to overtake community efforts. > another asking to open a communication channel. The other person is asking to open a private communication channel. OT, but where is this reductionism-to-rationalize-trend coming from lately?

Community is also about communication. In fact, that's a primary aspect of a community. Yeah, Mozilla introduced a bot that's stomping on things. Are they malicious? Twirling neatly waxed mustaches as they cackle gleefully as the little ants scurry about in a panic? Or is this a case of humans doing what humans do: Screwing things up. The first step is to open communications, and the most effective form of communicat…

Where is the communication before the damage was done when it actually mattered?
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