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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#681

Post by beowulfey »

throw_away892 wrote: post #666
zepto wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ad business that doesn’t rely on accumulating user data for targeting. Ads do not always mean user tracking.

This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.

On the contrary—I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched Mad Men, but there are some pretty good examples of ads in there that didn’t use tracking at all.

Calling tracking a cardinal rule of ads is like calling HTML a cardinal rule of communication. Sure it might be ubiquitous now, but if HTML were to suddenly disappear I guarantee communication between humans won’t stop — it would adapt. Tracking isn’t a foundation, it is merely what has worked this past decade or so.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#682

Post by somjeed »

sodality2 wrote: post #497
rorykoehler wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that until I realised Apple also have a billion dollar ads business

The problem is Apple relies on hardware sales. FB's entire business from the top down is ad money. And source for a billion dollar ad business? That sounds way higher than my initial impression. (And google paying to be the default SE is not advertising imo)

Here's a nice source of revenue from google ($9 billion/year): https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-reportedly-pays-apple-...

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#683

Post by kube-system »

minsc__and__boo wrote: post #631
kube-system wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically everyone with an iPhone uses an Apple ID. It is certainly not hyperbole that the devices usability would be very severely impacted without access to Apple's servers.

They would lose iCloud access. That's what the Chinese Government threatened them with. It is not "bricking phones" as you said. As much as you don't like this fact, Apple had a choice and decided to put the Chinese government before it's users.

Yes, it is.

An iPhone that cannot connect to Apple’s servers is essentially bricked. Not only do a significant number of critical features on the phone require reaching out to Apple to function, but IIRC, after a certain period of time without being able to contact Apple, the phone will require you to log in with your Apple ID. I believe this is to prevent activation lock bypasses by blocking network resources.

I remember reading about an issue a while back, where a person got locked out of their phone at sea, because they didn’t have network access for an extended period of time.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#684

Post by zepto »

throw_away892 wrote: post #679
zepto wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Google built a super successful ad business on search terms alone, long before they got into user tracking. Do you have any evidence that Apple tracks users for their ad business - which only sells ads for apps when users search for them?

Check their ad business brief - https://searchads.apple.com/ As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/appl...

> As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones

That isn’t evidence of Apple tracking anything.

IDFA is used by Facebook and ad-tech companies.

Apple are switching IDFA to be Opt-In rather than opt out.

That’s what Facebook is complaining about.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#685

Post by throw_away892 »

beowulfey wrote: post #681
throw_away892 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.

On the contrary—I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched Mad Men, but there are some pretty good examples of ads in there that didn’t use tracking at all. Calling tracking a cardinal rule of ads is like calling HTML a cardinal rule of communication. Sure it might be ubiquitous now, but if HTML were to suddenly disappear I guarantee communication between humans won’t stop — it would adapt. Tracking isn’t a foundation, it i…

I enjoyed Mad Men. But comparing web advertising today to the 70-80s is disingenuous.

Fact of the matter is, advertising today / web marketing relies on user tracking. I'm yet to see anyone debunk this.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#686

Post by throw_away892 »

zepto wrote: post #684
throw_away892 wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check their ad business brief - https://searchads.apple.com/ As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/appl...

> As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones That isn’t evidence of Apple tracking anything. IDFA is used by Facebook and ad-tech companies. Apple are switching IDFA to be Opt-In rather than opt out. That’s what Facebook is complaining about.

> IDFA

The mechanism for tracking users is already present. What more proof do you need?

Even if you manage to toggle 3rd parties out of your phone. You cannot toggle the Apple out of it.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#687

Post by Teever »

throw_away892 wrote: post #685
beowulfey wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary—I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched Mad Men, but there are some pretty good examples of ads in there that didn’t use tracking at all. Calling tracking a cardinal rule of ads is like calling HTML a cardinal rule of communication. Sure it might be ubiquitous now, but if HTML were to suddenly disappear I guarantee communication between humans won’t stop — it would adapt. Tracking isn’t a foundation, it i…

I enjoyed Mad Men. But comparing web advertising today to the 70-80s is disingenuous. Fact of the matter is, advertising today / web marketing relies on user tracking. I'm yet to see anyone debunk this.

I think what is disingenuous is calling what goes on in the modern internet as 'advertising'

Let's call it what it is -- stalking.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#688

Post by Teever »

zonethundery wrote: post #504
balls187 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be Facebook's legal argument in the US?

That Apple is unfairly privileging its own ads business. It's a tough cookie though; the offending behavior is simply Apple's truthful (if arguably hyperbolic) notice and consent popup.

Is that illegal though?

Apple isn't a monopoly -- they're a walled garden.

I'm all for regulations that force Apple to open up their hardware so that people can install different software on it, or to disable the walled-garden mode of their software platform akin to how you can install lineageOS or freedroid on android devices but I don't think it's reasonable to mandate that Apple must allow Facebook to do something with their software simply because Apple does it with theirs.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#689

Post by sss111 »

tmccrary55 wrote: post #35
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #11

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

This seems like it might be a perfect time for some company or startup with a different business model to swoop in and displace facebook.

do you have any ideas?

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#690

Post by worker767424 »

dylan604 wrote: post #450
worker767424 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it now: for all the hate Zuckerberg gets now, he's going to be Bill Gates in 25 years, and they only people who won't trust him are the vaccine mind control nuts.

I don't see this happening, unless The Zuck has some sort of Scrooge moment. He just doesn't seem the type.

I get where you're coming from, but you have to remember how hated Microsoft was 20 year ago, and remember that Zuck is already doing charitable work.
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