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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#681

Post by 205guy »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Fine: fuck you all you greedy devs who can't understand that the platform exists only because of Apple investment in security and usability and fuck all you scummy devs who want to collect all my contacts and location info and sell it to spammers, and probably my microphone and camera and sell it to blackmailers. Yeah, fuck them too.

Thank you, that was cathartic.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#682

Post by notSupplied »

If I were a congressman and had a shot at grilling Apple 2 weeks ago, I would have said this to them:

--- I was a Mac user and an Apple fan in the 90s and early 2000s, and we all know that was a rough time to be a Mac user: Because it was clear that Windows had won. If you asked a typical PC buyer why they chose Windows, their answer would go something like this: "All the software I need is on Windows. Windows has the REAL version of Office. Windows has IE6, the REAL internet. Windows has all my games, and my work software." Like the iPhone, the Mac was technologically superior in many ways, but that did not stop the Mac from shrinking to only a 5% market share, ceding its place in PC history to Windows.

Today, the iPhone enjoys the breadth of 3rd party software the Mac could only dream of. People pay $1000, sometimes every year, for a phone! This has transformed Apple's fortune from a struggling company into the most valuable company in the world. Why are people willing to pay so much for a phone? Because it is so much more than a phone. And why is it so much more than a phone? Because of the all 3rd party software expanding what the smartphone could do beyond what anyone thought was possible. So, why on earth would you put a tax on something that helps you so much, that it likely made the difference between being the distant loser in the PC era, vs being one of two major winners in the smartphone era? ---

There's a lot of different angles people arguing about this, but this is my favorite: Which is that the FLOW OF VALUE GOES BOTH WAYS. I find the tone that Apple takes on this arrogant: They really believe they are doing developers this huge favor by creating the iPhone and the AppStore and the flow of value flows massively in one direction, from Apple-to-Developer. But I sincerely do believe that 3rd party software is what made the difference between the fate of the Mac and the fate of the iPhone, and the respective difference in Apple's fortune. For as much as one could gush about iPhone's incredible hardware and software lead, the Mac had those same things going for it and still lost to Windows because of the software.

For Apple to turn around an rent-seek against one of the core reasons why the iPhone is successful, is to me, an incredible betrayal, and made possible only because of the gross difference in power and market concentration.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#683

Post by ksolanki »

There is a potential solution: how about an app like fortnite to charge the users 30% more and be transparent about it if they use the App Store to buy? Is that against the App Store TOS? There has to be a way for the costs to be made transparent so users can make an informed choice. It doesn’t have to be these large lawsuits?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#684

Post by rimliu »

Sargos wrote: post #490
ernst_klim wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? Yes, I have. You put unnecessary limits on our freedom to agree on certain contracts. Hence your measures are authoritarian, you try to restrict my freedom. In my opinion it's unethical to restrict people's freedom to make contracts willingly, if it hurts not any third party. As a consumer, I think apple is doing the right thing, and I totally a…

I have to assume you're not trolling but those are some impressive mental gymnastics my friend. If Apple allowed sideloading then you're experience would be 100% identical. You would have the freedom to continue using the App Store just like you do today and have a nice curated experience. Contracts would continue to work just like they do today. The thing is, the rest of us would have -more- freedom as we could, opt…

As if "allow sideloading" is just some boolean flag in the iOS source. Enabling it would have seriuos implications for iOS and for Apple (no matter where from a user download some shady app Apple suddenly becomes responsible).

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#686

Post by grey-area »

spanhandler wrote: post #680
grey-area wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sigh. I guess we're going to remove a product category (the relatively safe, very consistent, managed platform you can use when you just want to use a computer and not also manage a computer) and call that consumer choice, then? Here's a better suggestion: Stop Apple abusing their platform to force their customers to use their own book store by making others impractical. Stop Apple abusing their monopoly to force t…

I would be entirely thrilled to see another OS & platform with similarly-pro-user rules and restrictions and its own app store compete with Apple, tweaking those parts to fix the problems you call out (and others!), and either beat Apple or force them to improve a bunch. Except the browser thing—that's already fine IMO, and I think keeping other browser engines off is very nice because it keeps the Electron-type riff…

We don't need another platform, Apple just needs to be prevented from abusing their power over the platform to coerce customers and partners to give them a large cut of each transaction. It's easily done with a bit of legislation.

Apple don't keep other browsers off to keep electron out or make things safer, it is to ensure they have complete control of the web platform, which otherwise is a viable alternative to their app store, just the sort of alternative you're suggesting in fact.

Capitalism needs regulation to work well, if unregulated, it very quickly gives rise to robber barons and bullying of both consumers and smaller companies. Unfettered capitalism leads to monopolies, coercion and rent-seeking.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#688

Post by grey-area »

wheelie_boy wrote: post #285
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall.

Security doesn't require a 30% cut of every transaction though, nor does it require them to ban other payment methods. Apple should be forced to compete on a level playing field, rather than leveraging their platform to bully other companies into compliance.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#689

Post by dang »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #550
throwaway6000 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS. 2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule. 3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store. What were they expecting?

I don't give a fuck about Epic. Let's get alternative app stores be present in the default app stores on my device. What are you even complaining about? I am on your side, are you on your side?

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for. Plenty of commenters are expressing views similar to yours without breaking the site guidelines. If you'd please read them and stick to the rules, we'd be grateful.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#690

Post by asien »

binthere wrote: post #654

Simple question to whoever is honestly defending Apple: What if Windows prevented people from installing anything on their computer except from the Microsoft Store. Then Microsoft forced every app to use their payment system and then charged an excessive 30% fee for each transaction. Would you think that's an abusive and illegal practice?

Thats already the case , it’s Windows S.

But you have the choice between regular Windows and Locked down version.

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