Well the Fappening can disgrace and expose millions of people to extortion etc.
But the FBI can see everything so thats okay.
Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
681–690 of 734 posts
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#682Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you lose your device and buy a new one and restore your device with a back up, all your messages will be returned. There’s no way to accomplish this without having the private key in the backup. EDIT: When I say there is no way to accomplish this, I’m talking specifically about the process that exists today where the user doesn’t have to remember a password other than their iCloud password (which today, can also b…
Maybe we're talking about different private keys? To clarify, here's how I think it works: 1) To send you a new iMessage, someone else's iPhone Z encrypts it with your public key and sends it through the iMessage network. Apple can't read this message since they don't have your iMessage private key, which is only on your device. 2) Your iPhone A receives the encrypted iMessages and decrypts them with your iMessage pr…
The encryption is a bit complex on the iPhone, because keys are typically held by the secure enclave which enforces policy on use. These keys are both used to encrypt the base filesystem, and can be applied by policy against individual files.
Example policies from the Secure Enclave would be that a private key is available on first unlock, only while unlocked, only while a PIN is set, and/or whether the key should be shared with other trusted devices.
The base filesystem is encrypted with a key released on boot, while individual files can be encrypted with some set of these policies. I believe this can be done either on individual files in an app's data, or as an entitlement to apply by default to the entire app. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/en...
My understanding is that files set with a policy that they are only available while the device is unlocked will still be backed up in the locally encrypted form. So, assuming Signal/WhatsApp/etc set a single flag their data is stored encrypted in iCloud.
Further, per your list I suspect that the backup data is sent to/from iCloud already encrypted by a secret - but that secret is shared with iCloud for recovery and shared further on official government request. The goal there is to limit the amount of unencrypted user data sent to third party servers (in this case in the US I believe Azure-hosted storage for backups).
The keys are separately stored on Apple-controlled servers in non-China countries. In China, I believe they were required by law to have the key storage instead hosted by a Chinese data center.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Most people, including technically knowledgable users here on HN, were unaware iCloud backups have always been unencrypted. iCloud backups are definitely encrypted. They just aren't end-to-end encrypted. That should have been plainly obvious to any technically knowledgeable user because you don't lose your data forever when you forget your Apple ID password. Or the fact that you can see your photos through a web bro…
> That should have been plainly obvious to any technically knowledgeable user As you can see from this discussion, there are a lot of technically knowledgeable people who did not find this "plainly obvious". It's disingenuous to blame users for Apple's misleading marketing.
One could argue if those can be called "technically knowledgeable"
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. In this instance, Apple decided to continue to not encrypt iCloud backups because, according to one source, > […] the company did not want to risk being attacked by public officials for protecting criminals, sued for moving previously…
If unencrypted iCloud back ups is the price for us getting to keep fully encrypted devices, so be it
If Google is able to introduce this then why can't Apple?
>Starting in Android Pie, devices can take advantage of a new capability where backed-up application data can only be decrypted by a key that is randomly generated at the client. This decryption key is encrypted using the user's lockscreen PIN/pattern/passcode, which isn’t known by Google.
>By design, this means that no one (including Google) can access a user's backed-up application data without specifically knowing their passcode.
https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/google-and-android-h...
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#685What the... I was under the impression that iCloud backups are end-to-end encrypted. This is a HUGE problem.
On MacOS, iTunes/Finder stores (optionally) encrypted backups at
~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup
Since we hold the key it's a blob nobody can get to without brute forcing it.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#686Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That should have been plainly obvious to any technically knowledgeable user As you can see from this discussion, there are a lot of technically knowledgeable people who did not find this "plainly obvious". It's disingenuous to blame users for Apple's misleading marketing.
One could argue if those can be called "technically knowledgeable"
It's okay for knowledgeable people to not know things.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not a backdoor, nor does it circumvent anything. It is a front door convenience feature which has distinct privacy/security trade-offs. There exists no magical way to provide a means of lost password/device recovery which doesn’t grant Apple access to decrypt your data. It turns out that a lot of users want to have a way to recover from a lost device/password and are willing to let Apple decrypt their data. You…
> There exists no magical way to provide a means of lost password/device recovery which doesn’t grant Apple access to decrypt your data. In modern times your face and your fingerprints could be that magic.
Reboot the phone, or hit the sleep button 5 times and your fingerprint and face becone useless. Only the unlock code can get in to the phone.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The keyboards on their laptops are barely functional This must be some definition of "barely functional" I'm unfamiliar with. I've had a mid-2017 MBP since they were released. Yeah, I had to get the keyboard replaced when some keys failed after a year, but at least they did it for free. Actually, overall I prefer this keyboard to the 2013 I had previously. I think their failure rate is unacceptable, but they are ce…
> Yeah, I had to get the keyboard replaced when some keys failed after a year As a person who had to replace a microsoft ergonomic keyboard after 14 years and has never had to replace a laptop keyboard I would consider a laptop keyboard that was replaced after a year due to failed keys to qualify as 'barely functional.' It's the 21st century. keyboards are a solved problem that should never fail. It's abject failure…
The new keyboard design was meant to solve problems that keyboards have not specifically addressed before. It was a failed design, absolutely. But 99% of the time the keyboard works to my satisfaction, so I do not understand how you can label it "barely functional". "Barely functional" means "it rarely functions as intended", which is so obviously not true in any case.
Does it fail more than the average keyboard? Yes. Am I pleased about its failure rate? Absolutely not. Would I rather have a different keyboard? Uhhh probably? I like the way the keys feel, such as the fact that they don't wobble in place like the previous generation, and I find that I do not type any slower or make more mistakes than I did previously. Probably this keyboard was designed for somebody who types like I do, and perhaps this is not the way most people type. (I say this because most people complain about the reduced travel, about the keys not registering presses all the time, and other issues.)
So my point is: the keyboard is bad as measured by multiple metrics, and Apple should feel bad about it, but there is no conceivable definition of "barely functional" that applies to this keyboard. Most of the time I have not had to worry about its failure rate because it does not affect me on a daily basis, even though I use it for typing everyday.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The keyboards on their laptops are barely functional This must be some definition of "barely functional" I'm unfamiliar with. I've had a mid-2017 MBP since they were released. Yeah, I had to get the keyboard replaced when some keys failed after a year, but at least they did it for free. Actually, overall I prefer this keyboard to the 2013 I had previously. I think their failure rate is unacceptable, but they are ce…
It's heavily dependent on personal taste, but for example I make easily twice as many mistakes typing with the new keyboard than I did with the old keyboard, or any other keyboard I own, on other laptops or standalone. I wouldn't call it "barely functional" either since I can clearly still type on that keyboard, but the combination of mechanical failure rate and personal accuracy issues means that I buy the MBP despi…
Yes, this is absolutely a fair take. I've heard from multiple people that they seem to make more mistakes with this keyboard, and other people say they just don't like the way it feels.
Personally, I find it to be an improvement over the previous generation in almost all respects except for, obviously, the failure rate. I hate that I am expecting the keyboard to fail again within a year or two, but perhaps I will be surprised and this particular one will last long enough that it won't be a problem for me.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#690Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…
It's less about Apple here and more about the government forcing their control. Apple, Microsoft, and many other companies have gone to congress to try and keep them from controlling encryption. At the end of the day they're a company and they need a certain level of cooperation from the government to do business.
THIS is why open source matters. The government can't control people when money isn't what motivates them.