Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European Parliament approves copyright reform

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 840 posts

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#681

Post by koonsolo »

ABCLAW wrote: post #676
koonsolo wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did. I've followed every public draft of the language as its developed You clearly didn't. From the text itself: "for less than three years and which have an annual turnover below EUR 10 million" Do you see the "and" there? This means that ANY business that is older than 3 NEEDS to comply with filters. I read the text, because it directly impacts my platform. The solution is: start a foreign corporation. Your com…

>You clearly didn't. I did. I wrote at length about it in the previous thread, and provided links to the language of the articles as well as the elements that were ignored. You need to read ALL of the language to understand how the proportionality requirement impacts the scope delimitation requirement you're listing. If you don't do that, you end up with a broken understanding of how the gears fit together. The legis…

Sure buddy, whatever you say.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#683

Post by NeedMoreTea »

toasterlovin wrote: post #631
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." N Farage, May 2016.

You seem to have misinterpreted me. I was not speaking to the finality of the Brexit vote (and I agree that a roughly 50/50 split is not a mandate), but to the tactic of attempting to invalidate your political opponents by claiming that they were duped or hoodwinked into voting the way they did. It's incredibly patronizing (in addition to being illogical).

It's not a "tactic". It's a statement of the absurd level of lies and disinformation from the Brexit side from Farage, Gove and Johnson and in interviews and advert all the way down to local campaigns. Subsequently shown to have had illegal levels of spending, criticised by the electoral commission and countless stories about hidden funding, dubious tactics from Cambridge Analytica or whoever, or bullshit facebook ads. Remain came out with some poor predictions, but there weren't, as far as I can tell, any outright lies. A distinct lack of revelations after the event too.

Sure, there's always some dubious local leaflets, or a stupid statement or three, in every election. This was quantitatively and qualitatively different by orders of magnitude. By far the most disingenuous campaign I've ever seen for a UK vote.

So I do feel duped - I don't think it matters which way one voted - as UK elections have generally done much, much better at presenting issues. The leave campaign promised the moon on a stick in a very US style, which 24hr news happily amplified. Farage burst the bus slogan the morning after the result.

Suffice to say both sides ran bloody awful campaigns, and the end result is no-one is happy.

The first EU referendum saw a booklet sent to every household discussing and arguing both sides of all the main issues - to allow people a chance to understand before voting. Leave actually had a case back then - in joining the EU we were turning our back on significant and long standing Commonwealth trade arrangements.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#684

Post by dragonwriter »

Digit-Al wrote: post #679
montenegrohugo wrote: post #241

A big part of the problem is that there is no single entity that defends the citizens interest in this instance. You have the Disney's of the world heavily lobbying to pass reforms like these, but who protests against it? - Online signatures? Gets laughed out of the room. They could be fake, they don't mean anything, they are paid, etc.. - Voting? Voting cycles are too long and voting decisions cannot be made on a si…

Here's an idea I've been playing around with for a while now: A citizens lobbying service. It could be an independent non-profit allied to other non-profits like EFF. When one of these non-profits wants to run a campaign against a bad law being enacted they can run a "campaign". They can explain why it is bad, just as they currently do, but as well as asking people to write to their local government representative th…

Nonprofits already collect money (both in general and tied to specific efforts) and hire professional lobbyists to advocate for their causes.

What is the third-party service doing here besides adding extra overhead?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#685

Post by scotty79 »

adrianN wrote: post #572
clarkmoody wrote: post #435

It's called counter-revolution. Many revolutionary movements are eventually co-opted by elites (often the elites of the overthrown system) for their own purposes. Sometimes the new system put in place after the counter-revolution is worse than the system the original revolution sought to overthrow. The cypherpunks foresaw the dystopian surveillance state decades before the reality and tried to get out in front of it…

I don't think cryptography can win against legislation. There are no technological solutions to social problems.

There are no other solutions to social problems than technological because people don't change unless their environment changes.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#686

Post by morsch »

nicc wrote: post #632
pessimizer wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is currently considered left-wing when compared to neonazis and white separatists, though. A lot of people (including neonazis and white separatists) currently think of the left-right continuum as being extreme left (think racism, sexism, and homophobia are really bad) -> center (don't care about politics) -> extreme right (think racism, sexism, and homophobia are really good.) Being somewhere in between entails o…

The percentage of the population who is a neo-Nazi and let alone white separatists is negligible. Why is everyone obsessed with them nowadays? And why are you including me in that group (since you said only neo-Nazis believe Macron is left-wing). That's extremely weird.

since you said only neo-Nazis believe Macron is left-wing

Pessimizer neither said or even implied that.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#687

Post by ABCLAW »

Natanael_L wrote: post #662
ABCLAW wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because now a startup has less than 3 years to add this content filtering, which provided as a service or not, is going to cost €€€. Not really? This isn't a flat 'you need to pay 10k a yr regardless of your size' imposition. Proportionality is important. The articles, as written, are interesting because they already mention a ton of the balancing considerations. All of those are completely absent in these conversat…

The problem is that there's absolutely nothing in there that explains how to balance anything. There's nothing in favor of moderate regulation. Also: https://torrentfreak.com/german-data-privacy-commissioner-so...

I agree that there's an obvious risk here, but this is a burden for the courts to bear.

The concern over data-use at filtering service companies is new to me and interesting but substantially mitigated if they are compliant with GDPR. I haven't seen this argument before, so I'll have to take a look. Thanks!

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#688

Post by drchaos »

tremon wrote: post #280
Juliate wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could even argue that this could trigger a new wave of self-hosting/publishing.

Probably not, as self-hosters are disproportionately affected by spurious or malicious copyright claims (they don't have the pooled resources to fight).

Those services do not necessarily need to be publicly accessible. Think of a federated network of private servers with closed user groups, which allow to share stuff easily with selected users on other servers. The directive would probably not even apply to this, but even if it does, it would be pretty hard to go after you, ay long as you don't share critical material with people you don't know.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#689

Post by jackofall1 »

Digit-Al wrote: post #679
montenegrohugo wrote: post #241

A big part of the problem is that there is no single entity that defends the citizens interest in this instance. You have the Disney's of the world heavily lobbying to pass reforms like these, but who protests against it? - Online signatures? Gets laughed out of the room. They could be fake, they don't mean anything, they are paid, etc.. - Voting? Voting cycles are too long and voting decisions cannot be made on a si…

Here's an idea I've been playing around with for a while now: A citizens lobbying service. It could be an independent non-profit allied to other non-profits like EFF. When one of these non-profits wants to run a campaign against a bad law being enacted they can run a "campaign". They can explain why it is bad, just as they currently do, but as well as asking people to write to their local government representative th…

Yeah, we would need some kind of organization that lobbies according to the public's will.

Of course people shouldn't just be able to join this organization and take over the reigns, so they would need to be voted in. Let's say each region of a country will have a couple of candidates and regular votes are held on who will get to join the organization for a limited time. With this organization in place, we will finally be able to truly voice the people's opinion and act on their behalf!

There is something though about that idea that I cannot pinpoint. It somehow feels vaguely familiar. If I could just figure out how...

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#690

Post by magduf »

swebs wrote: post #484
montenegrohugo wrote: post #241

A big part of the problem is that there is no single entity that defends the citizens interest in this instance. You have the Disney's of the world heavily lobbying to pass reforms like these, but who protests against it? - Online signatures? Gets laughed out of the room. They could be fake, they don't mean anything, they are paid, etc.. - Voting? Voting cycles are too long and voting decisions cannot be made on a si…

I like the idea of referendums. It shows how much people care about important issues. Internet polls are useless since they can be cheated and petitions suck because they don't measure how many people are opposed to the petition.

Referenda only work when the populace is informed and educated enough to make good decisions. Otherwise, you get Brexit.
Post reply on HN