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Oceans hit highest temperature on record

bbc.com

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Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#671

Post by y04nn »

dgellow wrote: post #553
jjav wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even hints at minimally inconveniencing 5% of the population 5%? No. That's a lot of people. At least in the USA, the one and only thing that matters is what benefits the top 0.0002% richest (approximate percentage of billionares in the US). Nobody else matters anymore.

Older people matter, given they vote

An interesting idea would be a democracy where your voting right is proportional to your expected remaining years to live. This would give more power to younger generations that are the ones that are going to be the most impacted by the decisions.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#672

Post by defrost »

sfn42 wrote: post #670
senordevnyc wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no certainty that adaptation to a 4°C world is possible That's very different from your certainty that our civilization will end. Even just reading through their list of impacts at +4C, it's horrific, but pretty clearly not civilization-ending. IMO, this kind of hyperbole does a lot of damage to your cause. The reality is bad enough, you don't need to make things up. People eventually stop believing the boy…

What do you think adapt means? If we do not adapt we die. Those are the options. If we cannot adapt to the new climate on Earth we can not live on Earth. And we sure can't live anywhere else. I'm not "crying wolf". You, like most people just don't want to hear it. That's why most (especially the "officially accepted") climate models are unrealistically optimistic even with their worst case scenarios. Because people w…

> If we do not adapt we die

To wit: Russian cowboys learn to wrangle a brand new beef industry - https://whyy.org/segments/russian-cowboys-learn-to-wrangle-a...

Getting an early start on skill sets before Siberia replaces the American cattle plains.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#673

Post by AlecSchueler »

RugnirViking wrote: post #482
AlecSchueler wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i don't accept arguments in the form of B Feel free to share why not. At the end of the China is still part of a global system dominated by capitalism and they have to play the markets game in order to survive. They could easily fully do things their own way but that would mean, for example, chance of private intellectual property, which would mean no WTO membership, which would mean massively reduced capacity for…

I don't think you get to abdicate responsibilty of some avoidable negative externality of something you do just because some entirely separate function of it is the thing your customers want. If I were a plumber who fixed leaks by diverting the water into the customers' neighbors houses, my customers aren't the ones responsible for the damage it causes. I don't think it matters even if the externality isn't avoidable…

> I don't think you get to abdicate responsibilty

I made no such suggestion, only that China isn't solely responsible for the future of humanity, which was the claim I responded to.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#674

Post by AlecSchueler »

drawnwren wrote: post #596
AlecSchueler wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "why not?" Do we understand that humanity includes Chinese people? Do we also understand A) the steps they're already taking to reduce emissions and B) how much of their emissions historically and today are in service of Western consumers?

China has never had a meaningful reduction in per capita carbon emissions. Ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

What are you trying to say with this?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#675

Post by sva_ »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #447
sva_ wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not "most at risk" compared to eg south Asia, the middle east, parts of Africa, etc; and this idea that AMOC collapse will turn Europe into a glacier is a blatant exaggeration that does not root itself in reality.

wrong: EU is the region with the highest acceleration of most climate parameters

I'd say the EU is the region with the highest acceleration of climate scientists, hence they find "the highest acceleration of most climate parameters".

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#676

Post by Quarrelsome »

Garora wrote: post #652
Quarrelsome wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

go to shop, notice that much food has been flown in from the four corners of the earth just to satisfy you. Go home, look at all the objects in your house, do the same thing. Then tell you that this has nothing to do with you.

Food transportation is a very low percentage of the food's footprint, what you eat is more important, but you dont want to hink about it

who wants to eat meat rarely? Some people eat it every meal.

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#677

Post by senordevnyc »

sfn42 wrote: post #670
senordevnyc wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no certainty that adaptation to a 4°C world is possible That's very different from your certainty that our civilization will end. Even just reading through their list of impacts at +4C, it's horrific, but pretty clearly not civilization-ending. IMO, this kind of hyperbole does a lot of damage to your cause. The reality is bad enough, you don't need to make things up. People eventually stop believing the boy…

What do you think adapt means? If we do not adapt we die. Those are the options. If we cannot adapt to the new climate on Earth we can not live on Earth. And we sure can't live anywhere else. I'm not "crying wolf". You, like most people just don't want to hear it. That's why most (especially the "officially accepted") climate models are unrealistically optimistic even with their worst case scenarios. Because people w…

Climate change won’t even kill 10% of humanity. I do not understand why people are so pessimistic about our ability to adapt. That’s how we created this problem in the first place! Of course we’re not going to just lay down and die. 80% is completely ridiculous and there’s not a shred of evidence for it, is there?

I understand that you don’t think you’re being alarmist, of course. But why would I think some random internet commenter is more credible with their predictions that are much worse than the IPCC and other scientific consensus?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#678

Post by DoctorOetker »

wat10000 wrote: post #667
DoctorOetker wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed they were? thats what you would have to do to recover the lost fresh water. In order to compare apples to apples, I compared the costs of allowing the fresh water to be lost to the ocean, and then desalinating an equivalent amount to the costs of simply not letting the fresh water get lost to operating water locks. > that gets lots of rain just like population / industry demand and renewable supply fl…

“It's orders of magnitude more expensive to desalinate sea water than it is to simply prevent fresh water from being needlessly wasted on operating water locks...” What is the point of this statement if desalination isn’t actually needed here?

I never claimed desalination (which is energetically expensive) is necessary, I claim both throttling of Panama Canal traffic and fresh water loss are unnecessary.

Is saving shipping fuel or saving freshwater during a drought that is expected to worsen significantly "(un)necessary"? Is human prosperity "(un)necessary"?

Why are you bending over backwards to defend wasting precious resources?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#679

Post by BobbyJo »

mrguyorama wrote: post #605
BobbyJo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you hold the view that AI will not lead to use using energy more efficiently.

AI cannot break physics. AI cannot magically make engines more efficient or CO2 not a greenhouse gas.

Is your argument that the world economy is running so close to theoretical maximum efficiency that AI can't improve it?

Re: Oceans hit highest temperature on record

#680

Post by defrost »

BobbyJo wrote: post #679
mrguyorama wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI cannot break physics. AI cannot magically make engines more efficient or CO2 not a greenhouse gas.

Is your argument that the world economy is running so close to theoretical maximum efficiency that AI can't improve it?

More likely that any ideas AI comes up with will be "mid" and face the same implementation obstacles that already exist, coupled with the majority of energy burnt up by AI will go to frivolous ends, making personalised dog whistles, derivitive elevator muzak, et al.
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