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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#671

Post by ls612 »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121
cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

There is no law. There is only power, and the will to use it. Remember and internalize this at all times.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#672

Post by weberer »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121
cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

>Remember what happened to Aaron Swartz

He killed himself before the trial even began. I think he would have won the case if he actually went through it.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#673

Post by rng-concern »

schoen wrote: post #383

I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…

I don't own a cell phone, haven't for years. I fear this alone would be enough to arouse suspicion and I'll be denied access. Not an immediate problem for my family: as a Canadian I have no plans to visit the states for a long time. However, I could see this being suspicious in other countries as well..

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#674

Post by ls612 »

steve_taylor wrote: post #130
halestock wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of engineer types forget that the law is not code, and reductionist arguments almost never actually work in practice because it's a human interpreting the law.

It reminds me of tax law in many countries. You can follow the letter of the law, but if the vibes are off, you can still be found to be in breach of a vague catch-all provision (e.g. economic substance doctorine in the US, GAAR in Canada/UK, Part IVA in Australia, etc).

To misquote Bismarck, only fools, drunks, and Americans actually believe the rule of law is real.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#675

Post by summarybot »

and what part of "search my digital device for words and phrases" is expressly allowed by the fourth amendment that protects against warrantless search and seizure? oh yeah, none of it. that's right. the fact that agents are conducting broadsweeping searches in clear violation of The Constitution is so painful it's almost laughable. it being a "border crossing" applied to digital information and not just the contents of my suitcase is an appalling transgression of the spirit of the law. also why is your device programmed to self-erase? that's also incredibly sus.

smuggling endangered species? bad. okay search a suitcase.

having unrestricted access to all my gmails because i need to catch a plane? absolutely unacceptable.

having your phone autowipe when pressed by authority? quit whatever nefarious shit you're doing, thanks

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#677

Post by MSFT_Edging »

frgturpwd wrote: post #501
mcv wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security concerns you need to think about when visiting the US are absolutely no less than those when visiting China these days. Treat it like a totalitarian dictatorship with more technological means.

Honestly, I personally would be less nervous visiting China.

Something I think is funny is that a lot of Chinese police think of themselves as catching up to the US in terms of surveillance tech. Think about how many internal migrant workers China has coming to the cities for work then back out to the rural areas.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#678

Post by jvanderbot »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #590
schoen wrote: post #383

I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…

We probably need honey pod fake OS systems that boots up if not properly handled displaying some stars & stripes as background image and having the US national anthem playing for any sound the OS is trying to play.

A phone with a backup account, unlocked with duress pin makes sense to me.

How hard would it be to admin-allow some apps to work across barriers. E.g., wallet apps work, airline tickets work, but email/socials do not.

the issue is that when a phone is unlocked, they can just plug in a USB device and scrape everything off it. The TSA agent may not be eyeballing a facebook account so much as plugging in an exfiltration software stack or malware.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#680

Post by mattlondon »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

Yes this is the whole $5-dollar-wrench XKCD thing.

"Ahah! I've won! The data has gone!! MUWAHAHAH! Take THAT border guards".... congrats you're still going to the same prison though.

If you've got something to hide (legitimately or not), don't take it across the border in the US or anywhere. Even then I am sure they'll either compel you to hand over your cloud passwords or again you end up going to the same prison for some other reason.

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