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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#671

Post by maxdo »

chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

This model is dead on arrival.

It’s a burned ccp money at this point . They will not be able to serve it until H2 2026 . Even at this point if you look at opus 4.7 and gpt 5.5 this model is just mediocre.

By the time they can serve it nobody will care at all.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#672

Post by Oras »

XCSme wrote: post #597

Something is odd with this model, their blog posts shows REALLY good results, but in most other third-party benchmarks, people realize it's not really SOTA, even bellow Kimi K2.6 and GLM-5/5.1 In my tests too[0], it doesn't reach top 10. One issue, which they also mentioned in their post, is that they can't really serve well the model at the moment, so V4-Pro is heavily rate-limited and gives a lot of timeout errors…

I used pro via API (DeepSeek API not OpenRouter) with Claude Code, and the planning, visual solution, understanding was fantastic.

I would say I wouldn't notice this wasn't Opus 4.6. What I asked was looking at a feature implemented recently, and how it could be improved. Consumed 3.3 million tokens and create a much better flow.

It had a bug when I started the implementation though related to the API, which I suppose it is something they didn't catch when making their API compatible with CC.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#673

Post by elbear »

amunozo wrote: post #576
solarkraft wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At home I currently use MiniMax via OpenRouter - it’s pretty good and very cheap. They have a subscription plan, but I’m not ready to commit to it yet. Another way to keep the ability to try out new models is to buy a reseller subscription like Cursor’s.

I tried OpenRouter but I feel the money flies even with these models, it is not comparable to a subscription but yes, it's very good for trying. Maybe I should test other models alongside GPT 5.5 to see which one fits me.

I'm also unemployed. So far the models that I've used the most are Kimi and GLM. I haven't done that much agentic coding though, I've mostly used them for studying math and general conversations and I'm generally happy with their performance.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#674

Post by reactordev »

maxdo wrote: post #671
chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

This model is dead on arrival. It’s a burned ccp money at this point . They will not be able to serve it until H2 2026 . Even at this point if you look at opus 4.7 and gpt 5.5 this model is just mediocre. By the time they can serve it nobody will care at all.

I think you missed the bigger picture here. It’s that China has their own stack now, soon others will follow. It’s not about putting up the highest numbers, it’s about putting up the highest ROI. To them, this is it. Qwen too but being able to compete with today’s models means they are closer to competing with tomorrow’s.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#675

Post by michaelmrose »

maxdo wrote: post #671
chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

This model is dead on arrival. It’s a burned ccp money at this point . They will not be able to serve it until H2 2026 . Even at this point if you look at opus 4.7 and gpt 5.5 this model is just mediocre. By the time they can serve it nobody will care at all.

Multiple independent implementations inherently virtuous. After all each individual party may innovate in ways that benefit everyone ultimately.

Also it's tech they can be sure we can't cut them out of or tariff and money flowing from Chinese companies to other Chinese companies which we appreciate the benefits of when the shoe is on the other foot.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#676

Post by Eisenstein »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #490
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

> Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. So does this mean I can run this on AMD? And on a consumer 9000 series card?

If the card supports vulkan and the model has gguf weights. llamacpp has excellent vulkan support that is being actively developed and is not that far behind CUDA where speed is concerned.

* https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/releases

Re: DeepSeek v4

#677

Post by eejjs »

ifwinterco wrote: post #278
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

As a Brit I'm here for it to be honest, I'm tired of America with everything that's going on. China is not perfect but a bit of competition is healthy and needed

I’m also a Brit and agree 100%.

We need to accept that being too close to America is harming us and start funding projects to protect our assets e.g talent leaking out to American entities.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#678

Post by amluto »

kccqzy wrote: post #670
throwa356262 wrote: post #217

Seriously, why can't huge companies like OpenAI and Google produce documentation that is half this good?? https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/thinking_mode No BS, just a concise description of exactly what I need to write my own agent.

I spent only two minutes reading their documentation and it’s clear no one did any proofreading and it’s full of mistakes made by non-native speakers. Example: the second sentence on the first page says “softwares” but “software” is a mass noun that cannot be pluralized. Example: the third page about tokens has some zipped code to “calculate the token usage for your intput/output” and obviously “intput” should be “in…

The tool calling Python example would have benefitted from actually parsing the tool call. As is, it explains almost nothing.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#679

Post by catlover76 »

Ladioss wrote: post #376
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

[dead]

Re: DeepSeek v4

#680

Post by adrian_b »

accountofthaha wrote: post #553
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

Does the 'zero CUDA dependency' also count for running it on my own device? I have an AMD card, older model. Would love to have a small version of this running for coding purposes. Really nice to see the Chinese are competing this strongly with the rest of the world. Competition is always nice for the end-consumer.

The model is open weights, so you can download it from the link given at the top.

Then you can run it using some inference backend, e.g. llama.cpp, on any hardware supported by it.

However, this is a big model so even if you quantize it you need a lot of memory to be able to run it.

The alternative is to run it much more slowly, by storing the weights on an SSD. There have already been published some results about optimizing inference to work like this, and I expect that this will become more common in the future.

There are cases when running slowly a better model can still be preferable to running quickly a model that gives poor results, especially when you do not use it conversationally, but to do some work with agents.

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