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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#671

Post by henrikschroder »

machdiamonds wrote: post #416
byvirtueof wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still believe that for the masses (think console gamers and pc gamers without the gaming rig) cloud gaming will be the future. I've been playing fps/rts/rpg games through GeForce Now on a MacBook M1 and so far there's few obvious drawbacks - good internet required, slight input lag which can be annoying for some FPS games sure, and not all games are available yet - but for those who only play a few games regularly,…

I agree, the prospects for cloud gaming do seem promising. However, we can't forget that in VR, latency is a much more important factor. One solution could be for companies to establish datacenters near high-population areas to guarantee low latency. But, I believe a more effective approach might involve advanced foveated rendering coupled with technologies like DLSS. At present, it seems like a viable strategy for b…

> I agree, the prospects for cloud gaming do seem promising.

Every attempt so far has failed, spectacularly. What is promising about that?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#672

Post by TeMPOraL »

mach1ne wrote: post #497
roomey wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but buying things on the internet wasn't laughed at, if anything people were worried about it cause of their credit card numbers. It was that basis of the dot com boom of the late 90s. Everyone saw the potential and lashed money into it. It didn't deliver at the time, but that dynamic is totally different to vr headsets. Think smart phones, they weren't pushed, people wanted them in a serious way

It was laughed at by consumers. There was a time not long ago when buying anything from internet was considered taboo because, you said it, fear of losing your credit card information to scammers.

> There was a time not long ago when buying anything from internet was considered taboo because, you said it, fear of losing your credit card information to scammers.

That's a distinctly American problem. As is the (over)use of credit cards in general.

Here in Europe, the main worry was simply paying in advance and not getting the item. Early on, the popular choice was just paying to the postman on delivery - it moved some of the risk on to the seller, but it was balanced out by the seller making this option ~50% more expensive. It took some time for people to get used to dispute processes in marketplaces, and then for the laws to be updated with additional safeguards (e.g. 14 days no-questions-asked return policy for online purchases, which I think is an EU directive), and at some point, transferring money in advance of delivery became a normal practice. That was even before payment gateways, or even smartphones, became ubiquitous.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#673

Post by fsniper »

I suppose to understand the premise of a newer technical idea we could look into how it is perceived in the sci-fi works.

I can not say I am any way en expert or geek for everything sci-fi so please keep in mind the below points are how I see this from my limited point of view and knowledge.

Consider mobile phones, tablets, It was mainstream on sci-fi even before it was even remotely possible on reality. Everyone, unless considered a recluse had a handheld communication device. It was not perceived as a niche product that only a limited set of people uses. It's used all of the time, not something that is reserved for particular times or places.

And considering everyone reading/watching/listening the works would want to have a piece of it, I can really say it was always meant to be mainstream if it was built. And it did.

Let's have a look on VR and AR. Is it considered mainstream in sci-fi? Like everyone without any distinction uses them? Is it something considered a timeless/place-less device that everyone has and uses? I don't say it's not considered useless. I say it's most of the time considered a niche product or device, a limited set of people has access to. Either rich/privileged or with a particular job that requires the use case. It's not considered to be used all the time. It has it's times to be used and then left to itself. And If someone is in fact uses it for extended periods or never gets out of, they are the recluse.

If I am not mistaken on how I view it, I don't think these AR/VR devices are meant to be mainstream. Perhaps a holodeck would be a wiser option to invest into?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#674

Post by wraptile »

elefanten wrote: post #223
zmmmmm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20M people bought Quests. More than x-box in the same period. I find this writing off of their sales achievements as really superficial. Whatever else you want to say, they shifted units and the people buying them wanted something he was selling.

The open secret is that the units they’ve sold get very little use. The typical user plays around with it for a few weeks and then it sits on the shelf.

I love my Quest and will definitely get Quest 3 but the only reason I don't use it more because it's a thing on my head and that will never be fun long-term use until it doesn't feel like a thing on my head.

Apple's take is still a thing on your head.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#675

Post by grumbel »

seydor wrote: post #638
grumbel wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not to free the hands. The primary reason to go for this interface is comfort and ergonomics. Holding up your hands in the air for prolonged amounts of time is hard. We use keyboards and mice because we can rest our hands with them. Apple's approach avoids that and lets your eyes do the selection, while still using your fingers for the clicking, thus giving you the responsiveness you are used to (i.e. no weird "…

> approach avoids that and lets your eyes do the selection, I m not sure if they use the eyes as a pointer. It sounds very imprecise to me.

They have some quite extensive developer documentation and video dealing with how to design apps around eye tracking and maximize the precision of it:

* https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10073

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#676

Post by sebzim4500 »

Root_Denied wrote: post #506
m_mueller wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's still a couple of years out, but what about a little thought experiment: Let's say you had a pair of normal looking glasses that do everything that Vision Pro is doing now [1] and cost, say, 1500 USD. This would IMO be a no-brainer, as you can then augment any space and activity you want with having views into the digital world - for work, for hobbies, you name it. That would IMO be a mass market device…

Augmented Reality (AR, or I guess "spatial computing" now) has always been what I thought would push the whole thing over the edge, and not VR. The "killer app" for VR is immersive experiences - while there's a niche for them, and I think we'll see more and better iterations, I don't think it has the growth potential that AR does. The killer app for AR is the pair of glasses that pops up information as an overlay on…

>If we do get there I pity anyone with photosensitivity issues or epilepsy. They're gonna have a rough time.

I would expect the headset to have the same accessibility features for epileptics that phones have.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#677

Post by sebzim4500 »

pjmlp wrote: post #527
nologic01 wrote: post #393

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

My first try with a VR headset was in 1994, with DOOM. Since then my opinion has hardly changed that these are gimmicks, and mostly unusable by people with eye sight issues, where already dealing with natural light is an issue, let alone tiny screens a couple of cms away.

Have you actually tried it though?

I would be willing to buy this argument if anyone who actually used the device were reporting these issues.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#678

Post by esun »

d--b wrote: post #580
LeoPanthera wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody gave a shit about smart phones before the iphone. 2 out of 3 isn't bad, but this is revisionist history, and simply wrong. Nokia dominated the pre-iPhone smartphone market with Symbian phones, which supported 3G for years before the first iPhone, which didn't even have 3G. And are we assuming that Blackberries aren't "smartphones"? Because I think they probably are.

Not saying it didn't exist, but that it wasn't mainstream. Ask your mother if she's ever heard of Symbian phones...

This comment could be improved by addressing parents rather than mothers.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#679

Post by TeMPOraL »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #651
pmontra wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just this, but you couldn't see the product. In a store you can look at the product, see how it feels, try it on, test it out, etc. This is why I still buy clothes, shoes and sport gears at stores. Returning products takes time and you still don't have what you wanted to buy. If I buy a new item of the very same model I bought before, that's OK to buy online. Unfortunately companies keep changing models every y…

What brands are you buying from that change models every year??

Pretty much every clothing brand out there, and usually more often than once a year.

Also at this point they don't give a damn about quality controls. E.g. there was a time when you could order shoes online rather reliably. Today? What you get in the mail is barely correlated with the size you specified on the order.

From the last 10 days: we order two pairs for our kids, size X and Y - which we selected by actually following measurement instructions of the shoe company. When the order comes, it it turns out size X is too big for the younger kid, size Y is too small for the older. We return those, and order again, this time sizes (X-1) and (Y+1). What we got is... the (X-1) shoes were identical to X shoes (therefore still too large); the (Y+1) shoes were like Y+3 - way overshooting the target.

This was same models, same company, with no logistical confusion according to labels. Just one of multiple similar events we had (and many more I heard about from others) where the size of shoes received was pretty much random. So this is one category of goods that we're going back to buying in person.

And yes, that means dragging a 1.5 y.o. and a 4 y.o. into a shoe store in a large mall - the very one I mentioned above. Yes, our kids will likely get overwhelmed by lights and wares and ads, and start making all kinds of scenes. I don't care. If the store doesn't want a scene, they should not be routinely fucking up their order sizes.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#680

Post by rib3ye »

kumarvvr wrote: post #244

" By contrast, every demo that they showed was a person sitting on a couch by themself." Wait, I thought an Oculus does the same thing too. Its a blindfold on your face, and it doesnt matter if they are alone or in a crowd. Mark has got to be terrified. The power of Apple is the tight and efficient integration of hardware and software. Regarding battery power, I woukd not rule out versions that stream the video and o…

Why isn’t anyone pointing out that there were many demos of people walking around, and some of them, in an office with other people?

It’s almost like, after spending $10B on the space, he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about /s

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