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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#671
post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ad business that doesn’t rely on accumulating user data for targeting. Ads do not always mean user tracking.

This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.

Not really.

Google built a super successful ad business on search terms alone, long before they got into user tracking.

Do you have any evidence that Apple tracks users for their ad business - which only sells ads for apps when users search for them?

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#672
I’m technical enough to be using PiHole[1], and also have AdBlockers[2] at the local machines. I live with very typical friends, family, and relatives who would still ask my help configuring Wi-Fi, buying the right UPS models, scared when papers got curled up in their printers. (I moved to NextDNS[3] from PiHole, where I don’t have to manage something for a small premium.)

I’ve been successful enough to train my family to use 1Password[4], calendar their school works, etc. I’m not against paying for the things that my family and I get happiness from, such as YouTube Premium, Zoom, and the like.

I stopped using Facebook 5+ years back but maintained my account just so I can help families, friends who will usually ask me to fix their page for their tiny businesses, find or set up something new.

When Mark Zuckerberg said something to the effect of -- we do algorithms to help and serve people get the right ads; my thoughts were, “Wrong Question. Why the f*k would someone wants ads in the first place?”

But then, I realized that my wife likes the ads that come up on her Facebook, Instagram accounts. That is where she “discovers” all the awesome things she likes. So does my daughter. She loves the ads about Roblox, Minecraft, and the like. She had warned me to stop messing with her computers and trying to make them “behave like yours!”

The real world is an entirely different place where most people barely know anything of the underlying technology beyond the thin veil of interfaces that they use. Facebook and many others take advantage of that. If I'm choosing between the devils, I'd choose the lesser one.

1. https://pi-hole.net

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_blocking

3. https://nextdns.io

4. https://1password.com

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#673
post #481

Imagine a world with 0 tracking on any website/app. It would be horrendous. Advertising would not stop, it would just be so bad that we as users will be in even worse situation than today. Now, current situation is also not good, with the amount of tracking/ers not only affecting privacy, but also the look, speed and size of the web pages in a very bad way. Also no advertising on the web at all, as much as people say…

Why would you want effective advertising? The sole purpose of advertising is making you buy something you otherwise wouldn’t buy. Call me old fashioned but if I want to buy something I look up reviews, I don’t just scroll Facebook until a good advert pops up.

I just explained it. No advertising on the internet at all would be worse than some (because most of free services, publications, networks etc. would be shutdown). So, if need to see some ads, let them at least be relevant.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#674

I don't have Facebook and I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging. However, seeing this response from Facebook has gotten me very excited for this update. There must be more to it then Apple's generic 'Most Advanced Update Ever' marketing. I'm still skeptical of Apple's commitment to privacy, but I'm certainly happy to get this update. Apple should thank Facebook for the free marketing.

> I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging That's a very healthy attitude towards Apple's claims. They developed all these APIs that allow app makers to spy on their users, and then blame the app makers for spying. For example, why does any app need to know which other apps I have installed, and how long I use them? This permission should very sparingly pass the review process, and only for apps in sp…

I completely agree that it is a healthy attitude to have, and all of Apple's claims should be independently investigated. But I also agree that you should check facts or provide citations before spreading FUD:

- There was never any API for a third party app on iOS to get the time spent in another app. The only workaround I saw to this was an app that asked you to screenshot your app usage screen, and it was able to process those screenshots in an automated way (can't find the link).

- There is an API to open URLs between apps, so that one app can link to another app. When developers realized that they could check whether or not a given URL was openable to check if an app is installed, they started abusing this API to check every app on the system. Apple cracked down on the API in iOS 9 and made it so that all apps declare which other apps they can check, and App Review decides if they have a legitimate use: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio...

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#675
Fuck Facebook. Buy Apple. They’re the good guys in this case. They are fundamentally about advancing the case of sexy electronics and hardware and polished SIMPLE clean user interfaces and connectivity that just works. Don’t believe the lies about it being a “walled Garden” or some shit. Tim Cook can fundamentally be swayed that privacy is a FEATURE THE USER DEMANDS.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#676
post #4

> Some apps, like Facebook, allow for some data tracking to be manually disabled. But by default, it is turned on. That gives the company reams of personal data on who we are and what we are doing, which it then vacuums up, packages and sells. My understanding is that Facebook does not sell this data, but rather lets advertisers create hyper-targeted ads, which are only possible because of this data. Edit: Certainly…

It's a nice bit of semantic ju-jitsu to say "they take this data and sell a service that wouldn't be possible without it" isn't the same as "selling this data," isn't it? Especially given that the targeting mechanisms don't have any k-anonymity guarantees, and I'm aware of at least one paper showing information leaks through the ad portal [1] https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_events/122...

There's no incentives for Facebook to "sell" their user data as long as this is the primary advantage over their competitors including Google, Amazon, MS, etc. Big techs naturally tend to monopolize connections to its users and FB is no exception.

In fact, if they "sell" their user data, anti-trust regulators will be very happy; they want big techs to share user data to its competitors but the big techs are using user privacy and security as their excuses to rule out new competitions in the industry. Apple took the lead and other big techs are now following.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#677
post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SE is fantastic as it’s much cheaper and works well. I switched from an XS and years of latest models and forgot how much I love thumb reader over face. Apple Pay in particular is better with thumb reader instead of the tap, look at, tap again buggy process.

FaceID is great for me (and my aging parents), but not for some use cases (wearing masks, or starting usage while in pocket). I could really get behind having both (esp if I could combined).

There was a rumor floating around that Apple was going to stick the reader behind the screen. Having both would be really awesome.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#678

How can an app track activities in other apps? Is it only possible if those other apps use the same tracking networks, or can the app track activities in _any_ other app? How does this work? What can facebook extract today? (I'm surprised a bit, i thought phones offer app isolation). The only things that comes to mind is to correlate device ids from different apps if the apps use the same analytics/advertising networ…

Facebook offers libraries for iOS (and Android) developers to add features Facebook login, but which include other features like native app analytics and drop-in widgets that serve Facebook ads.

If it's not obvious, these Facebook libraries are trojan malware, full stop. And, even though iOS apps are sandboxed, if 50% of a user's apps have the same Facebook library baked into them, it's not hard for Facebook to link all that data together to determine usage patterns across apps.

The reason why they're fighting with Apple now is that it used to be much easier for Facebook to obtain a device-unique identifier that each app could forward along to Facebook, giving them device-level usage data. Apple now sees the privacy flaws in device-unique ids, and has either started or plans to start rotating those device ids and making them unique at the app-level only, which reduces the resolution of its tracking from the device level to the network level.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#679
post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.

Not really. Google built a super successful ad business on search terms alone, long before they got into user tracking. Do you have any evidence that Apple tracks users for their ad business - which only sells ads for apps when users search for them?

Check their ad business brief - https://searchads.apple.com/

As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/appl...

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#680

I’m technical enough to be using PiHole[1], and also have AdBlockers[2] at the local machines. I live with very typical friends, family, and relatives who would still ask my help configuring Wi-Fi, buying the right UPS models, scared when papers got curled up in their printers. (I moved to NextDNS[3] from PiHole, where I don’t have to manage something for a small premium.) I’ve been successful enough to train my fami…

Also, many elders cannot differentiate legitimate links and ads. They are more innocent than we can imagine.
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