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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

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Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#671

Post by 737maxtw »

thu2111 wrote: post #540
paxys wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While editors like IntelliJ are definitely more polished out of the box, something that may not be apparent is that internally they are all standardizing on tooling and protocols put in place by VS Code in the last few years. Language toolchains are now expected to provide IDE-specific features on their own (by implementing a language server), and so IDEs themselves don't need to focus on making the language better.…

Most language toolchains are held together by small teams of volunteers or corporates (Apple, MS) that sell their own IDEs. They struggle to provide even the basics like solid fast compilers, portability, debuggers that aren't gdb, profilers that work and so on. Look at Go, Rust, Swift. All of them are fighting with basics like performance and language evolution. And now you want them to implement most of an IDE as w…

On the c# side though Jetbrains has possibly suffered a little bit. I know a lot of people have ditched ReSharper because it's just too slow in VS2019 and the built in stuff is often 'good enough' for them. Others either deal with the pain or have switched to Rider (I'm in this latter camp and happy about it).

On the other hand Jetbrains is a lot more diversified now than before (when their main products were IntelliJ, ReSharper, and teamcity)

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#672

Post by sbelskie »

Kranar wrote: post #43
laksdjfkasljdf wrote: post #15

VS Code, the text editor, is a trojan horse. Microsoft is selling you into the IDE, in small portions. This is similar to the IBM approach with JAVA last decade(s?). You install a "text editor" for simple things, like code completion. Before you realize you don't even know which compiler you are using or where it came from. You just press F5 and look at convenient break points. And somehow it only runs right on Azure…

Which IDE? If you mean Visual Studio, that's a Windows only product and it's really only good for Windows specific development like C# and MSVC. If you do C# or C++ development on Windows or XBox then you're likely already using Visual Studio and the community edition is a free product for individual use or open source products. If you mean some future IDE that MS is working on that they plan to evolve VS Code into,…

Obviously lots of C# development is still on Windows, but let’s not act like it’s 2003. I work on C# all day everyday and most of what I write runs on Linux.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#673

Post by keithnz »

vips7L wrote: post #613
keithnz wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find CLion really nice for writing C++ + Jetbrains Vim bindings are pretty good

IdeaVim always seems extremely buggy to me compared to what I'm used to in vscode-vim

odd, never really had a problem with it, of all the vim emulations I've found it to be one of the best. It's not fully featured, but none of them are.

I also use vscode-vim.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#674

Post by jakear »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #567
jakear wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really hard to be effective in any IDE without memorizing dozens of keyboard shortcuts, Curious if you use the command palette much? It should be a decent replacement for route memorization of keyboard shortcuts: How do I format this document agian? Hm... F1;form;enter done. And git push? F1:gpu;enter. Etc. I work on vs code and am trying to improve this area so all feedback appreciated!

> Curious if you use the command palette much Yes, definitely (I use Cmd-Shift-P a lot, which should be the same thing? I also use Sublime so that shortcut being the same is valuable), but more for things I need to do relatively rarely, as it's an order of magnitude slower than just pressing the respective key combo, plus requires some mindspace (what would I best type to find this?) – so it's not a complete substitu…

Thanks for the feedback :)

Good to know you use command pallet, I agree that it's not as fast as keybindings, but in my opinion it's a good way to learn about keybindings for future use -- if I search the same thing on the command pallet often enough, eventually I'll look over and see what the keybinding is.

I agree more touch bar functionality would be nice, though you can add that through extensions if you're really interested.

> No idea how one might offer something like this on devices with no touchbar,

What you describe should almost all be available by default via the F-keys already, which is nice because it works across all keyboards without needing to learn new stuff. I personally have by touch bar show just the F-keys when I'm in VS Code.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#675

Post by lmm »

Almad wrote: post #591
dheera wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean it should be as basic as class MyApp extends AndroidApp { void main() { Document.write("hello world"); Document.write(" blah "); } } javac it, adb sideload the .class file (or .jar file), and you should be done for the day. Unfortunately the bare minimum is way way way more complicated than this. Weird XML files, infestations of manifests (generate them automatically from 'ls' and 'grep' damnit), Gradle f…

> Gradle files (worst abomination of a build system ever) Ant? Maven?

Maven is wonderful. It's all the best parts of npm or cargo, years before them. Just don't try to fight it - accept that there is a maven way of doing things that you will have to follow. If you need something to build before something else, put it in a separate module. If you absolutely need a custom build step, write a proper maven plugin for it. But 99% of the time your build definition can and should be just a list of dependencies and a couple of basic settings values.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#676

Post by sinfulprogeny »

erezsh wrote: post #538
sinfulprogeny wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried out vscode for python now that I started a new job. I'm on linux for what it's worth. The experience has been massively frustrating coming from pycharm. First I installed the open source version, and found that microsoft publishes plugins that are programmed not to work with the open source version. They don't tell you this, rather, the plugin throws exceptions that some API is missing. I tried out the offici…

If you want a detached terminal, why not just open a terminal window?

It's not just the terminal, it's the python interpreter, ipython notebooks, debugger, e.t.c.

The terminal was what came to mind. Besides, when working in a remote dev project, the terminal automatically SSH's into the remote, and if local, it opens the working folder. It's practical to use the internal one sometimes.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#677

Post by diffeomorphism »

oblio wrote: post #659
diffeomorphism wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment doesn't contradict the post at all. If anything it supports that statement and then goes on to mentions that high latency connections are problematic.

High latency connections are a fact of life. If Emacs Tramp, for which development was started in 1998, when high latency connection were a lot more common, still has issues with high latency connections, that's not a glowing reference for its architecture. Especially since it seems VSCode manages those connections better. It's ok to admit your favorite tech has flaws, everything has them.

Not disagreeing with that. I am just saying that the previous post was that plugins don't have to be modified with Tramp and work transparently. The post referenced above does not disagree with that. Instead it says that tramp does not deal well with high latency connections. I think is important to be clear where the issue lies if one wants to get it fixed.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#679

Post by pjmlp »

globular-toast wrote: post #590
pjmlp wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Windows/Mac yes, that is what Microsoft is implementing. Linux, there seems no plans other than driving people into WSL instead, so.

"Microsoft loves open source".

On the contrary, Linux fragmentation has proven that Linux only has a place on embedded devices and servers.

POSIX CLI and daemons don't need GUIs.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#680

Post by thu2111 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #556
thu2111 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most language toolchains are held together by small teams of volunteers or corporates (Apple, MS) that sell their own IDEs. They struggle to provide even the basics like solid fast compilers, portability, debuggers that aren't gdb, profilers that work and so on. Look at Go, Rust, Swift. All of them are fighting with basics like performance and language evolution. And now you want them to implement most of an IDE as w…

> How much money is MS willing to throw into the VS Code project? A lot. Not that they have to do it alone, because a lot of the work on VS Code features is done by other people with their own motives (some volunteer community types, but also each of the major cloud platform vendors is investing in VSCode integration into their systems, too, and the same is true for lots of other firms.) > Its lack of revenue model l…

I don't see any stats saying VSCode has won "everything that isn't enterprise Java", that's clearly wrong as it's not really used for .NET stuff and most C++ for gaming is still classical Visual Studio. And JB IDEs have a lot of traction for any language they support outside of Java too.

GitHub Codespaces isn't a revenue model for the IDE. It is a separate product that requires a separate team, so it'd have to be charging a lot of money indeed and get a lot of users to fund two products for the price of one. It also looks like a rather basic featureset - if it takes off as a product it is not very hard to integrate into its competitors or build a similar system.

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