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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#671

Post by [deleted] »

Scoundreller wrote: post #590
goostavos wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things I don't miss about cabs: 1. them complaining about short fair or straight up driving off before I could get in because I wasn't going far enough (lesson learned in Vegas: get in before answering questions) 2. The constant, relentless dance about their "credit card machine being broken" "you can pay cash!" "there's an ATM machine inside" Uber and Lyft were god sends when I was traveling a lot for work. click bu…

In theory, the idea of regulated, but high, fares for taxis came with a legal obligation to accept all rides. But that never stopped drivers from playing that game anyway.

[deleted]

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#672

Post by gnopgnip »

pishpash wrote: post #476
gnopgnip wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were employees they would be required to be reimbursed for business expenses including commercial insurance, and mileage to cover gas and depreciation.

The reimbursement requirement is baselined with respect to minimum wage, so it could be effectively $0. If it is not $0, the form would be additional W-2 pay, which is allowed by law, and this would be subject to all taxes. On top of the tax loss, calculation would not be at the generous IRS mileage rate that drivers currently exploit, but true expenses which most say are lower. Yet people continue to think drivers a…

CA requires that employers reimburse employees for work related expenses, so there is no issue with expense kickback taking someone below minimum wage. Reimbursement is not earned wages, it is not taxed. It is true reimbursement could be lower than the IRS rate, but actual costs are pretty close to the IRS mileage rate in practice. Depreciation has a real cost that is ignored by many

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#673

Post by gwright »

throwawaygh wrote: post #505
gwright wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who "we" is in your statement, but unemployment insurance is state by state in the US, not national.

Yes, all of them, literally all 50. No exception. Do we have public school available nationally?

Your post wasn't clear if that is what you intended to say.

A single "national unemployment insurance scheme" is not at all the same thing as 50 separate state schemes.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#674

Post by ec109685 »

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

What flexibility will drivers be forced to give up if they are classified as part-time or full-time employees by Uber?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#675

Post by SQueeeeeL »

BoorishBears wrote: post #658
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True! I use this concept a lot when arguing with people about minimum wage! I think those single Mom's should be happy to have a job, not complaining they can't pay rent! Like they can just learn to code if they don't want to make min wage

I can't tell if this is a joke or someone incredibly out of touch with the reality of poverty (this being HN, there are enough people who fall in the latter group to make it unclear)

It's a joke, I'm glad taking "Actions > Words" to it's logical conclusion seemed like someone's real opinion, really tells you about the type of people that frequent this site

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#676

Post by ric2b »

kyle_martin1 wrote: post #638
barry-cotter wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drivers were not investors in the company; it failing was not a huge problem for them. Having a strong preference for leisure is totally ok. The drivers didn’t have enough stock and weren’t paid enough to motivate them to work the hours the company needed to be viable. The company failed. The investors lost all their money. The founders and employees got nothing. That’s capitalism. If they’d been right they’d hav…

The drivers are franchisees so they have huge interest in keeping the company going, otherwise they wouldn't get any trips. It was their problem. They just didn't want to change.

They can just drive for another company, they don't suffer any significant loss the same way a McDonald's restaurant would if McD's folded and had to overhaul the entire restaurant. The drivers just install another app on their phone.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#677

Post by ric2b »

xapata wrote: post #659
plussed_reader wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Uber and Lyft were god sends when I was traveling a lot for work. click button, get in car, arrive at place. None of the adversarial nonsense At the expense of the security of the drivers serving you. You get convenience, they get a subsistence lifestyle.

You think they'd have been that angry if they had a decent lifestyle?

Maybe the causality goes the other way, people like that might have difficulty finding other jobs.

Most low-paying jobs aren't known for having lots of angry/rude people working them. Probably because in most jobs you have to work with other people or interact with customers within view of your co-workers/manager.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#678

Post by ksdale »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #629
ksdale wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't mind at all if tipping culture disappeared, but I think it's naive to think that costs wouldn't go up dramatically for customers. Customers are footing the bill one way or another, it's just a matter of whether we're willing to pay enough to ensure everyone gets a livable wage.

so you're saying you're hopping that tipping goes away like that you can save by not tipping and letting other people tip? Sounds good to me!

I don’t think there’s any possible interpretation of my comment that lines up with what you said...

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#679

Post by toddmclaughlin »

Zak wrote: post #655
jeffbee wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what we call "revealed preference". It doesn't really matter what ten thousand Uber drivers have told you (and some of the supposed first-hand field surveying claimed in this discussion stretches belief). The only thing that matters in the end is how the participants in the market actually behave.

I think what's happening here is the defined categories don't adequately model reality. An Uber driver is somewhere between the current legal categories of employee and independent contractor. A fully independent contractor like a SuperShuttle driver can treat each fare as a separate contract, pick only the best offers, and generally not provide the company an adequate service level to ensure a reliable stream of cus…

Very well said. Gig workers are in that nebulous, legally undefined category between employees and contractors.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#680

Post by CogitoCogito »

fidelramos wrote: post #653
CogitoCogito wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that poll is representative of the drivers' will at large, I guess then hopefully Uber and Lyft can satisfy these drivers by following the regulations required for them to be classified as independent contractors.

There is another way: laws should allow people and companies to determine their own terms for collaboration, instead of meddling with their freedom of association.

Nothing is keeping Uber and Lyft from determining their own terms. However, the terms they choose affect the taxes they pay and the benefits they provide. If they want certain terms, then they need to accept the regulations that come with them.

So I guess I'm not really sure what your point is. Is your point that companies shouldn't be required to follow labor/tax law? What's the difference between this and saying that you don't want to pay payroll taxes on employees? Or that you want to pay a lower rate? Or that you don't want to pay import taxes or that you don't want to follow required laws in what you may put in the products you sell? What exactly makes Uber and Lyft so special that they should get to choose what rules they are to follow?

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