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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#671

Post by aero-glide »

searchableguy wrote: post #532
dmix wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite is trying to spin two billion dollar companies fighting over percentages as some “big brother” battle. I don’t remember this part of 1984.

I feel like epic has more to show off soon. Apple rejected facebook, microsoft and google in the last 2 weeks when they were trying to get their game centres approved. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/6/21357771/apple-cloud-gamin... https://twitter.com/FacebookGaming/status/129170874980819763...

What a disgrace. I hope consumers realize how bad this is. Imagine if something like that happened in the Desktop space.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#672

Post by rahulroy9202 »

pfranz wrote: post #496
danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

Just look at the PC platform Epic is coming from. It used to be just buying retail boxes, then Steam came along. Now it's Steam, Epic, Origin, Uplay. Personally, I hate keeping track of the separate apps and which games were purchased with each. So I avoid most of them even for games I want to play. Its one of the things that makes me prefer consoles. The current situation seems more anti-business than anti-consumer…

You might want to check out GoG Galaxy. It has integrations to Steam/Epic/Origin/Uplay/etc and provides a single user interface to manage your purchases across these platforms.

Also, consoles have exclusives too. I choose PC over console anyday.

I really like the idea of a purchase being decoupled from the distribution. GOG(completely) and HumbleBundle (limited extent) seems to be the only option at the moment.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#673

Post by aero-glide »

Whatarethese wrote: post #489
CarbyAu wrote: post #430

The problem here is Apples user market capture. Through iOS devices Apple has created a market of users they are the very protective gatekeeper for. Windows PC user market. Not locked down. Though MS has a store you have Steam, EGS, GOG, Origin, UBS etc for games alone. Let alone productivity apps. Android market. Not locked down. Though google play store is the gorilla other stores exist. I like F-Droid. EPICS Unrea…

Having to launch games from 5 different shitty desktop programs is terrible for the user.

Being forced to stick to one store is shitty for the user.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#674

Post by mhh__ »

ss3000 wrote: post #518

I wonder why Fortnite doesn't also make a WebAssembly version of Fortnight and deploy it on fortnite.com? Then Apple would get jack shit from any sales there, so they can fight this battle with them while still offering access to the game for Apple users. I'm probably missing some esoteric limitation Apple places on web-based games to cripple this use case.

I would assume someone has tried somewhere at Epic but I think the issue is not only targeting WebGL (as opposed to VK/OpenGL/D3D) but the sheer size of the assets a game like Fortnite has.

Epic has the money to fund development to make it happen on the technical side, but currently you'd need to download so much stuff that you'd be doing the same thing as their game launcher anyway.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#675

Post by pulse7 »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #575
throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

I truly believe apple pays people to comb through HN and down vote any comment critical of apple. The simple fact is that apple has done more than any other company in the history of computing to quash the freedom to control your own computing devices. It is impossible to fight apple in the way we fought microsoft years ago - by building out a good opensource ecosystem. The entire reason for the app store is to stop…

Parent's comment may soon be flagged by N such payed individuals and it will automagically disappear from this discussion...

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#676

Post by Joeri »

mvn9 wrote: post #629
throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

No, we shouldn't have had an alternative app store on iphones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iphone to get online and make calls. If you start a company, and you have 50% market share [1], do you want to be treated like a monopoly? In a free market, Apple should be allowed to operate however they see fit, as long as they don't have a monopoly. Of course it is annoying that they ca…

This requirement for there to be a monopoly is a very U.S.-centric view. In the EU they tend to look more towards market distortion, and companies that distort a market tend to get fined. The EU also has some beef to settle with apple for getting away with dodging billions of euros in taxes through ireland.

So, because of the specifics of how antitrust legislation works in the U.S. Epic may very well fail in court, because they may fail to prove a monopoly. But I do expect the EU to take action. It is all but unavoidable at this point.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#677

Post by cynix »

LeicaLatte wrote: post #523

A lot more developers would come sell on the store if it’s 15%. Apple has a real chance to take the App Store to the next level. This is a failure of imagination on their part and those are the worst kinds of mistakes a creative organization can make.

You’re saying those developers currently would rather make 0% than 70%?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#678

Post by lajawfe »

throwaway_2047 wrote: post #656
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Pharaoh says everybody who speaks against the royal family has their tongue cut out. 2. Seth says there should be less taxes as the pharaoh is too rich. 3. He gets his tongue cut out. What did he expect? Unfair rules should not always be followed.

Well, Pharaoh is Pharaoh because they born to be Apple is Apple because Apple earned it. Not disagreeing your point though

Well, Apple were at the right place at the right time. There is quite a bit of input from their side, but don't underplay the huge role of luck. And there is also network effect, once they had healthy numbers, people flock to them, so it is also due to network effects they are huge.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#679

Post by mvn9 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #655
mvn9 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we shouldn't have had an alternative app store on iphones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iphone to get online and make calls. If you start a company, and you have 50% market share [1], do you want to be treated like a monopoly? In a free market, Apple should be allowed to operate however they see fit, as long as they don't have a monopoly. Of course it is annoying that they ca…

Via the FTC[0]: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidan…

That's the law. That's how forcing a second app store could be possible. But first of all, I don't think that it should be used to force Apple's hands. If they want to operate the app store the way they do, they should be able to do so. Long-term, they will kill their position because being abusive creates an opportunity for another player.

Secondly, I don't believe that the law will be applied. There are plenty of big companies that are in that position. First of all google with their operating system, browser, search-engine, ad network combo and Microsoft with their office suit. If you look at the quality of MS Teams, you know that its popularity is not by free choice.

If a second app store is introduced by that law, there would be plenty of follow-ups. I doubt that killing those cash-cows will happen when there is an economic war against China. Opening up those markets would allow Chinese companies to take those positions.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#680

Post by spanhandler »

grey-area wrote: post #659
spanhandler wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fuck your security and fuck your walled gardens. Sigh. I guess we're going to remove a product category (the relatively safe, very consistent, managed platform you can use when you just want to use a computer and not also manage a computer ) and call that consumer choice, then? I'd prefer instead that more companies make something similarly-nice and compete with Apple. I have lots and lots of options I can use if I…

> Sigh. I guess we're going to remove a product category (the relatively safe, very consistent, managed platform you can use when you just want to use a computer and not also manage a computer) and call that consumer choice, then? Here's a better suggestion: Stop Apple abusing their platform to force their customers to use their own book store by making others impractical. Stop Apple abusing their monopoly to force t…

I would be entirely thrilled to see another OS & platform with similarly-pro-user rules and restrictions and its own app store compete with Apple, tweaking those parts to fix the problems you call out (and others!), and either beat Apple or force them to improve a bunch.

Except the browser thing—that's already fine IMO, and I think keeping other browser engines off is very nice because it keeps the Electron-type riff-raff out of the store, among other reasons, and besides it's just the browser engine that's restricted. Again, what I'd rather see is another iOS-like OS & platform come on the market, also only one browser engine allowed, but for that browser engine to be better than Mobile WebKit, forcing Apple to improve or at least giving me another option in the same product category as i-devices, but with a browser engine I like better.

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