Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out • Hacker News Board

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#661

Post by cocoa_goddess » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 5:52 PM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #282

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this i…

I am totally with you on this. I would have chuckled along with you. I also would have made my own comments too. I worked in the male-dominated worlds of turbine enginrs for 5 years and trucking industry for 7. In those 12 years so many inappropriate things were heard and said but not one was ever directed at anyone specific. I was one to partake in makung those comments and also egged on my co*workers. It was fun and funny. This woman has totally blown an innocent comment way out of proportion.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#662

Post by mnicole » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 6:12 PM UTC

abentwookie wrote: post #642

mnicole wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this i…

Its simple: When you are in public learn to think before you speak. Its really not that difficult. I have enough sense not just blurt out things that could offend others when I am in public so I don't have these problems.

People with this mindset have never been to a conference this size before or they're forgetting what the environment is like. You are going to come across opinions and jokes that may not be in your taste, and it is up to you to either choose to ignore them because you were not a part of that conversation, or to discretely alert someone to the presence of this humor because you think it is actually harmful to people and the event itself.

She took a comment that had nothing, nada to do with the sexualization of women and tried to spin it into some sort of anti-women/"This is what we're talking about!" ridiculousness (p.s. this isn't actually at all what we're talking about when we bring up inequality, which is why women like me are furious about this).

We know from her blog post (and her previous tweets about stuffing socks into pants to impress TSA agents and her playing Cards Against Humanity at the same event - where she held up "Eating all the cookies before the AIDS bake sale.") that she wasn't actually offended; she saw the guy was a sponsor and determined that she was going to use him and his total non-issue of a statement to humiliate him because that little girl on the screen was going to grow up so fragile that she couldn't possibly handle two guys in public making an audible joke. Less people congregate at a random public place than at this event, does that stop you from hearing filth there? Can you handle it? Are you going to make a mockery of them over your public and professional Twitter account with thousands of followers?

Worse, she'd already had a dialogue with the men in which she butted into their conversation to add to it just a few minutes prior. So here we have someone admitting they're eavesdropping into conversations, which in itself isn't a crime, but you can't just listen in on what people are saying when you're not a part of the conversation and pull out a penalty flag when you hear something that "offends" you. A flag so big that the dude got fired over a joke that less people overheard than people saw her tweets on stuffing pants and eating AIDs cookies.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#663

Post by antihero » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

heili wrote: post #466

antihero wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. Anyone who feels "uncomfortable" because of adjusting a bra or underwear or scratching feet is fucking stupid and should not be accommodated.

Does that apply to a guy who adjusts his underwear during a meeting to reposition everything and make himself more comfortable too?

Yes. Being comfortable in meetings most likely makes them more productive.

There are limits, such as nudity, which can be distracting, but it's about being reasonable, and unfortunately different people draw that line of reasonability in different places.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#664

Post by ritchie70 » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 8:03 PM UTC

Lulu12 wrote: post #657

abentwookie wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its simple: When you are in public learn to think before you speak. Its really not that difficult. I have enough sense not just blurt out things that could offend others when I am in public so I don't have these problems.

Thank you for being a voice of reason here. I think AR went too far by posting a pic and hunting people down, but her objection has merit. When you're at a conference in an official capacity, don't general workplace rules apply? And don't most workplace sexual harassment rules include something about not using sexual language and not making the workplace uncomfortable for others? Richards could've said something to t…

You must work at a very sedate, serious, mature workplace.

Where I work, every time someone says "fsck" or "fork" or "Poller" (it's an elderly in-house system) someone snickers. Usually a woman.

The rest of us have a little fun at work, there's the occasional double entendre, and the work gets done.

Once I was in a meeting during a very high frustration time in a project and as we went around giving status everyone said "fuck" at some point. Including the very genteel female BA who said "I might as well too" right before she dropped her f-bomb. It was a good laugh and a good stress relief.

AR unquestionably went too far - she over-reacted, she broadcast what she should have uni-cast, and she appeared to have questionable motivations.

What a big mess this all is.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#665

Post by CRConrad » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 9:38 PM UTC

mr-hank wrote: post #347

natas_drol wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth noting that Alex's name badge was clearly displayed and he was prominently framed in the photo. I believe the image and caption published by Ms. Richards implies his involvement. Possibly others in the photo as well.

Well, I was there, I'm in the photo and I'm telling you that Alex was not involved.

Does that make her pointing him out -- she obviously did; some people think he's you -- better?

Worse, in my book. If you differ: Why?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#666

Post by fiveseven15 » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 10:58 PM UTC

wmt wrote: post #333

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

While everyone is riled up about Adria Richards getting offended and publicly shaming the person who made a joke about big dongles, you should keep in mind that she did not fire anyone. PlayHaven did. PlayHaven could have decided to be the responsible party and handle the incident constructively, but they did not want to do that. Even Adria, who still appears to think that the public shaming was a good thing to do, a…

sad, sad adria. shes on a crusade to delete everyones opinion that outs her as a hypocrite. shes deleted all the comments on her facebook, all the negative comments on her blog, wherever she can shes deleting it. all of this couldve been avoided if she could learn to act like an adult, and apologize. i HOPE she's really reflecting on all of this and will change her ways. i doubt it though..

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#667

Post by CRConrad » Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 11:56 PM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #637

CRConrad wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, apparently you can't police your own language. But your act of "correcting" strawman to "strawperson" IS an act of "language policing" -- you're policing the language of the person who used "strawman". And it was you yourself who said that language policing proves one wrong. Sure, you do indeed have the right to prove yourself wrong.

What is this nonsense? Go away.

Oh, now that I'm so thoroughly out-debated I must of course concede defeat.

Yup, officer Language Cop, buh-bye.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#668

Post by vbnmq » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 2:10 AM UTC

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #67

Xylakant wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if I witness a scene on the road, take a picture and post it online, then I'm judge, jury and executor. I might be right or might be wrong in my assertion that a crime has happened - but that's not for me to decide. If due to me posting said picture somebody looses his job or gets into any kind of trouble with a lynch mob, that's the consequence of my actions. And if I'm wrong, or overreacted in the course of me…

So once the information is public the person who publishes it responsible for any and all consequences resulting (even if what he or she posts is factual)? I agree that it wasn't the best way to handle it (at least publishing the photo wasn't, I'm fine with the rest) but that's different to being held responsible for all actions that follow. The person in question has responsibility for what they did, the company has…

in uk, yes... consider recent case of ex politician being wrongly accused of being paedophile by influential twitter users... they are now getting sued. even those that merely retweeted... there is no defensce to claim it was public knowledge already. it was untrue and damaging

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#669

Post by cfc_uk_ » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 2:26 PM UTC

selenamarie wrote: post #153

mr-hank wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PSF did not kick us out, they pulled us from the main convention and got our side of the story. I gave a statement, apologized and thanked them for upholding the cons integrity. They felt I was sincere and let us leave of our own accord. I was also the only one who was let go.

Thanks for continuing to speak in this thread. As someone who has not spoken up when I felt objectified or uncomfortable in the context of sexual jokes at technical conferences, I am relieved by how you've handled this. I wouldn't say I feel suddenly comfortable with speaking out to someone directly, but let's say that I feel a bit more like if I did speak to someone directly, they might not attack me. It's an unfort…

NEWS FLASH - this is not an isolated, "tech conference" or "tech industry" occcurence. I really cannot believe that women are still this insecure...blame the beauty industry for that not the techno geeks! I suppose you don't go out to bars or nightclubs either for due to the fear of being "sexually harrassed". If I heard grown men joking about a dongle in a sexual context --- I would probably laugh about it and then feel sorry that they were such geeks! (no offense guys)

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#670

Post by cfc_uk_ » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

abentwookie wrote: post #642

mnicole wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this i…

Its simple: When you are in public learn to think before you speak. Its really not that difficult. I have enough sense not just blurt out things that could offend others when I am in public so I don't have these problems.

So you're saying you've never flipped someone off that's cut you off in the Target parking lot??? I'm just saying, yes we should all think before we speak, etc etc but good grief --- what they said---- it wasn't that bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The fact that she posted on twitter that she felt like Joan of Arc - puhleeeeease!