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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#661

Post by repparw »

lxgr wrote: post #317
skywal_l wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it mean that instead of depending on the Visa/Mastercard duopoly you now depend on the Google/Apple duopoly?

Of course not, since you can just install the Android app on your free software aftermarket OS. Surely banks wouldn't require hardware attestation or monitor your device for being rooted, would they? /s Irony aside, yeah, this is a significant downside compared to hardware-based standards. Not so much for Android, as Google Pay and most competitors are implemented in software, but on a hypothetical iPhone or Garmin d…

Useful reference for banking app compatibility in grapheneOS https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#662

Post by rozap »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #654
switchbak wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I strongly disagree. Substitute with 'the Chinese mind can't comprehend' or 'the Palestinian mind can't comprehend' or 'the Muslim mind can't comprehend' or 'the African American mind can't comprehend' or 'the immigrant mind can't comprehend'. Obviously that would be a slur and not an acceptable way to phrase a point. HN rightly didn't allow these type of generalization comments against Russians after it invaded Ukra…

America was literally founded on this premise, and it should come as no surprise that our government has (d)evolved into what the founders felt was inevitable.

America is fairly exceptional in that it's not racist to say "Americans are ____" given it's a melting pot of so many different races and cultures. That's a beautiful thing, but something that the white supremecists in control of the US are working to erode.

Edit: damn I think this account is actually a bot. It's only pro Israel talking points, islamaphobia, and appeals to the mod to get people banned.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#663

Post by econ »

Fnoord wrote: post #511
jeroenhd wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using iDeal for many years now and have yet to see any of the downsides of it being a product of a commercial bank. Perhaps it's a difference in banking culture between different countries; I would certainly not put the same trust and faith in a Wero alternative set up by American banks, that's for sure. Banks are beholden to policy from the central bank and financial authorities. Payment fees are capped,…

You cannot do a chargeback on iDeal, but I don't think that is related to it being a product of commercial banks. The American companies Mastercard and Visa are subject to American rule of law. In the case of a criminal or authoritarian president, such is an issue. You can see how Russian assets got frozen and SWIFT stopped working for Russia after they did the full scale invasion of Ukraine. Should the USA invade Gr…

Imagine old Europe counting their own beans. The level of absurdity to outsource it to whomever...

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#664

Post by econ »

wslh wrote: post #161
jeroenhd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is run by the banks themselves, which are in turn controlled/restricted by the central bank. I don't think there's a meaningful difference on that front. The European ECB isn't really in a position to directly offer services to people, and relying on every country's central banks to cooperate will take decades.

The difference is clearly that banks have a different agenda from central banks. SWIFT is a cooperative of banks also but it seems that some central banks endeavours are better. BTW Argentina created an innovation back in the early 2000s as a product of a crisis. It was implemented in record time and transfers were immediate back then and improving. It's not run by the central banks though.

Bit like Moldova automating government because there simply was no money for armies of overpaid burocrates.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#665

Post by rbanffy »

mrits wrote: post #189
rbanffy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure European governments know that and are prepared to deal with the temper tantrum.

Which country in Europe is prepared to deal with anything? They can’t even break away from the country currently invading them

Europe has been dealing with wars since before your country existed. That’s nothing new around here.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#666

Post by 0x1ceb00da »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #430

The UPI payment system in India seems to work really well. I'm not sure about the architecture exactly, but there seems to be a way to generate one-time passwords that you can use to pay people a fixed amount. E.g. you go to a website or store, and they display a QR code for payment, which contains the payment recipient information and amount of the charge. When you scan it, you are taken to your bank app where you a…

India had to get rid of cash and move virtually all transactions online to deal with the massive fake currency problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH4TTuW_JcA

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#667

Post by GeoAtreides »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #184
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

> iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work Is it? I see it more as an underwhelming fix for SEPA Direct Debit's inability to verify payment data synchronously. * iDeal doesn't support basic features like pre-authorization. I'm not even sure if it supports setting up a payment agreement without triggering an immediate payment at all (pretty sure it didn't, when we inte…

> It hands over the customer's IBAN, which isn't really that much safer than a credit card number, since any merchant can trigger a SEPA Direct Debit using it.

this is not true. the IBAN alone is insufficient to authorize a direct debit.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#668

Post by n0um3n4 »

aipatselarom wrote: post #391
gloosx wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the West of what? Culturally and historically it's a Western country, yes, but politically and economically it's an Eastern country – founding member of BRICS and a developing economy. I think the author of the parent comment used "Western" term referring to ideological and economic grouping

>on the West of what? On the West of every single country in Europe, to start with. Don't take this the wrong way, but have you looked at a world map? I ask since a significant chunk of people from the US cannot find Mexico on a map ... Aside from its very evident geographic location , Brazil was the site of the first lasting European colony in the Americas established by Portugal. People in Brazil speak Portuguese[1…

i recently got interviewed by company in the UK. The Operations Chief thought Mexico was in Spain... jeez.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#669

Post by WhrRTheBaboons »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #359
amelius wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine. If you ever had your account blocked by Apple or Google, you know exactly why a government is the better option. At least you have the rule of law on your side. Big companies are the authoritarian situation, not the government.

It deems to me that the rule of law is easier to apply to third parties than to the government that is in charge of administering it

in some countries you can vote for your government and hold it accountable.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#670

Post by apexalpha »

mcv wrote: post #248
jeroenhd wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is a initiative of a collection of banks from a handful of countries. Every country already had something like this, in some form of another, and now all these systems are getting merged into a common system. No single country can claim ownership because it's an EU initiative. iDeal was one of the first and relatively easy systems across the EU, but it's hardly the predecessor. Wero also does peer-to-peer transf…

> Wero also does peer-to-peer transfers which iDeal doesn't Directly, without Tikkie? That's really interesting. I wasn't aware of that yet. My impression was indeed mostly a rebranding and expansion of iDeal.

That's just the easiest way to sell it to the Dutch public probably.
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