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AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

thealgorithmicbridge.com

661–670 of 694 posts

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#661

Humans have been successfully using violence for conflict-resolution for tens of thousands of years. We’ll be fine, it’s not our first rodeo.

> Humans have been successfully using violence for conflict-resolution for tens of thousands of years. We’ll be fine, it’s not our first rodeo. Reducing this to zero should be our #1 goal. As technological advancement keeps allowing one bad person to take out more and more people, for lower cost. If technology keeps advancing, that ratio could eventually become 1:1B+, for a few thousand dollars. In my opnion, this is…

But has there ever been an advanced, more civilized means to change tested and demonstrated? All I can think of was broadly diluted violence, applied systematically in an industrialized way against large populations - economic hardships, lowering life quality, health etc - instead of focused, more local flare ups.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI: - 1. Will require a large increase in taxation. - 2. Will likely cause some form of inflation. - 3. Will not provide enough money for a majority of people to survive on. - 4. Has no significant political support in the US.

> Will require a large increase in taxation. To billionaires and corps, as should be the case anyway. > Will likely cause some form of inflation. Based on what? > Will not provide enough money for a majority of people to survive on. Depends on how much is provided - the simple fix is to provide enough. > Has no significant political support in the US. This is the biggest hurdle, and it's because so many on the right…

>Depends on how much is provided - the simple fix is to provide enough.

To "provide enough" would cost trillions of extra dollars per year.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#663
post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI is only valuable if money is valuable though...what are you going to trade it for if no one has a job and everyone has access to super powerful production tools like advanced LLMs (which are at the low end of automated tooling overall)?

Idk, food and shelter? "Vibe coding a house" will increase housing supply, (and automation at every step of supply chain too), but the costs will still be nonzero.

But just like labour, commodities are also going to go heavily down, exactly because of the automation you describe.

In addition, it's all fine and good to say "people will still need to buy food clothes an shelter"

But what is the price gonna be? Who can afford it if no one has a job? Who's going to sell it and to who? For what profit?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to emphasize that the above should be immediately obvious. The fact that it's not does not bode well for humanity's future. Billionaires simply _should not exist_. The fact that the power to shape societies is concentrated in so few can account for many of the existential threats we face today. AI is not "the problem", it's merely the latest symptom of our broken system and the prioritization of the wrong go…

> Billionaires simply _should not exist Billionaires who inherit their wealth shouldn’t exist. But I have no problem with people like Bezos owning a sizable percentage share of valuable companies they created. When I was a kid, getting something ordered by mail took a week or two, even if you called in the order. UPS and FedEx existed, warehouses and storage trucks existed, but Bezos reduced that to a matter of hours…

My parent comment points out why society should not "reward them lavishly" as you say. However, I would (and did) put it in different terms. I'll elaborate as I think you misunderstand me.

I have no issue with incentivising and rewarding individuals who contribute great works. Any rewards, monetary or otherwise, would be fine if our institutions could continue to serve all and not just the few "rewarded" individuals.

Unfortunately, time has proven that money and power are intrinsically linked and those same few will continue to shape how and what paths humanity takes at large. I'm simply stating we should tread more carefully and not place all trust in a few cult of personalities as many seem to, and your response implies. Perhaps the stories of the self-made individual and the chances of becoming one of those few (however vanishing small the chance) is too ingrained in our collective psyche that we blind ourselves to what parts we actually play in this game.

The trade offs here aren't as simple as getting packages sooner rather than later. The tradeoffs are accepting a brutal, fuedalistic society where the negative outcomes for the many are disregarded for the positive outcomes of the few.

Perhaps the negative outcomes are too "invisible" in our daily lives because we, in tech, are isolated enough by nature of being fairly well compensated for the work we do. This in all likelihood will change if history is our guide. I personally know many individuals that work 2 or 3 jobs to be able to afford a roof over their heads because of wage suppression by corporations like the one you mention. Teachers, healthcare workers and the like. You may not see them as important but you may want to reflect on why. Meanwhile, the commons are actively being destroyed: hard won clean air and water protections are being rolled back. My father is dying of cancer because of exposure to chemicals that corporations actively lobbied to hide from the public at all costs, even though they were well aware of the dangers. These are the real results of direct corporate lobbying efforts made by the rewarded few. I don't see this as an "emotional" argument to make, but rather an inherently humanist one.

My children are growing up in a world with dimmer prospects than I or my parents had. If this is simply the cost of faster packages, than I want none of it.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, that's no reason to accept a return to that state of affairs. Progress happens slowly and imperceptibly, but on a grand scale it does happen.

Much as we'd like that to be true ideally, does it happen (in terms of inequality reducing)? I see no evidence of that, it ebbs and flows in various time periods and civilizations. One can try to resist that reversion to the mean but they'd historically be proven wrong.

That's like accepting burnt coffee is the average, so why try to make a good tasting cup. Nonsense.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to emphasize that the above should be immediately obvious. The fact that it's not does not bode well for humanity's future. Billionaires simply _should not exist_. The fact that the power to shape societies is concentrated in so few can account for many of the existential threats we face today. AI is not "the problem", it's merely the latest symptom of our broken system and the prioritization of the wrong go…

>Billionaires simply _should not exist_. T If American billionaires couldn't exist then America would be even poorer and underdeveloped than Europe, the entire tech industry wouldn't exist, and it'd be entirely at the mercy of China. Because nobody's going to start a business in a country that violently confiscates their wealth just for being successful. The envy of people like yourself is a deep moral illness that d…

Have you actually spent an appreciable amount of time outside of the US? Europe isn't the place of destitution and squalor you imply. I highly suggest it, to widen your perspective at least. Maybe then you'll see it's quite the reverse in many cases.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A UBI is basically impossible to implement on a large scale without there being significant downsides. In what world does increasing the budget by a trillion dollars or more work out well?

We are about to crank the budget by a half trillion just for the Department of War. Nobody seems to think that's a threat.

Plenty of people do.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will require a large increase in taxation. To billionaires and corps, as should be the case anyway. > Will likely cause some form of inflation. Based on what? > Will not provide enough money for a majority of people to survive on. Depends on how much is provided - the simple fix is to provide enough. > Has no significant political support in the US. This is the biggest hurdle, and it's because so many on the right…

>Depends on how much is provided - the simple fix is to provide enough. To "provide enough" would cost trillions of extra dollars per year.

No, it wouldn't require an exorbitant amount at all.

Taxing the 1% and megacorps a fair share, cracking down on all the tax avoidance schemes would provide more than enough.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are asking me about it. The point of my comment is that Iran will allow streaming what they'd want people to see.

I guess the parent was saying since there is no evidence, then it didn't happen. Almost sounding like a conspiracy, like the 30k death are fake. And you are simply saying, the Iranian Gov is blocking the information, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

We have not been shown any evidence that shows anything approaching this scale of people dead, we have not been told on what basis that specific number of deaths was determined and we have not been told why that supposed evidence can not be made public. 30 thousand killed in the span of two days would make this one of the bloodiest massacres in history. I don't see how that would not result in at least a single photo or satellite image of a street lined with dead bodies, of mass executions, of mass graves or simply just the logistics operation required to dispose of this many bodies. The only thing to back up this number is trusting the probably least trustworthy US administration in history.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#670
post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans have been successfully using violence for conflict-resolution for tens of thousands of years. We’ll be fine, it’s not our first rodeo. Reducing this to zero should be our #1 goal. As technological advancement keeps allowing one bad person to take out more and more people, for lower cost. If technology keeps advancing, that ratio could eventually become 1:1B+, for a few thousand dollars. In my opnion, this is…

But has there ever been an advanced, more civilized means to change tested and demonstrated? All I can think of was broadly diluted violence, applied systematically in an industrialized way against large populations - economic hardships, lowering life quality, health etc - instead of focused, more local flare ups.

When the knowledge to do things like create novel pathogens, or "mirror life," becomes widespread, and the tools cheaper, we need to have violence as a problem solving tool in the past. That's a big challenge.

Also, I am trying to predict the future, so I am likely way off.

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