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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#661

Post by 9rx »

parineum wrote: post #660
9rx wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's expensive because a _LOT_ of people want to live there. I can't figure out how to make the math make sense even if I were to build a house in the middle of nowhere. Time and materials is the real killer. Some day, when AI eliminates software development as a career, maybe you will be able to hire those people to build you houses for next to nothing, but right now I don't think it matters where or how many you…

You can't afford a 175k house on a software engineer salary? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklaho...

"Built in 1954" doesn't sound like new construction. Of course you can buy used houses at a fraction of the cost. That's nothing new. Maybe you missed it, but the discussion here about building new to make homes more affordable.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#662

Post by autoexec »

limagnolia wrote: post #562
kiba wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with a UBI is not the UBI itself, but the fact that landlords could just raise their price. You need to solve the contradiction within the economy in order to make UBI works. The current way our taxation policy work is to tax labor and capital, which is the basis of our economy, while flinching away from taxing land, which derives much of its value from the surrounding economic activity rather than an own…

If cities allowed more supply to be constructed, landlords couldn't just raise the price.

Just like in the US, there are a ton of homes in Ireland just sitting vacant. Supply isn't nearly as large a problem as affordability. Ireland introduced a vacant homes tax to try to help, but it seems they haven't gone far enough.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#663

Post by parineum »

9rx wrote: post #661
parineum wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't afford a 175k house on a software engineer salary? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklaho...

"Built in 1954" doesn't sound like new construction. Of course you can buy used houses at a fraction of the cost. That's nothing new. Maybe you missed it, but the discussion here about building new to make homes more affordable.

> building new to make homes more affordable

No need to build new, a plethora of affordable homes are available.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#664

Post by baseballdork »

its_magic wrote: post #631
baseballdork wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re proving the point. None of this is rational discourse. “you’re a criminal”, “ you’re a slave”, “you’re a crab”. We get it, you don’t like paying taxes. > The only purpose of your meager existence is to make your owners more wealthy and powerful. Are these the wealthy and powerful pot smokers you’re talking about?

[flagged]

Your opinion is taken with all the respect due to it.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#665

Post by Retric »

CalRobert wrote: post #243
Retric wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working artists, spouses, and semi-retirees are relatively common. ‘2,000 creative workers’ would make this quite competitive, even if it’s only 20k USD/year that could easily enable people to be artists who wouldn’t make a career of it on their own.

Right, and it would be great if people who wished to become artists could avail of this, but now it only goes for people who already are artists.

Many people who are artists can’t afford to stay artists.

Pulling a 80 hour workweeks at 24, supporting yourself while doing something else is not sustainable. Similarly someone supporting themselves as an artist + a kid is suddenly a very different situation.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#666

Post by xienze »

jmye wrote: post #646
xienze wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I want people on the high end of earnings (such as myself) to be taxed more so that a basic income scheme like this can be available for anybody who wants it. Charge me an extra $300/month and give it to some random 24 year old so that he can smoke weed and play his guitar. He'll get more use out of it than I will. You know you CAN donate money to the government any time you want, right? Do you do that?…

> You know you CAN donate money to the government any time you want, right? Do you do that? Practice what you preach, don't hide behind "oh if only the government made me do it." You know we can also advocate for higher taxes, given that it's astronomically more meaningful for everyone to give ten cents than for me to give a few dollars, right? Or did you think this was an insightful, valuable addition to the discuss…

> You know we can also advocate for higher taxes, given that it's astronomically more meaningful for everyone to give ten cents than for me to give a few dollars, right?

And you can ALSO voluntarily pay more in taxes while doing so. It's called leading by example. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates get called out on this and they do the same thing; "oh I'm just one person, my extra tax money is but a drop in the ocean, so why bother." If you and everyone else saying "tax me harder" actually put up, it might amount to something! And at least it would make people respect your position a bit more.

> Prove it. How many are loads?

Well let's see, anyone who's lived their entire life on welfare (we have families of multiple generations who have done so at this point) would qualify. So would all the homeless people more content to live on the street and do drugs than go to rehab.

> What, specifically, do you think UBI actually amounts to?

Enough for people with low ambition to live on! And their vote counts just as much as the productive members of society paying for them.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#667

Post by calvinmorrison »

tropdrop wrote: post #169
calvinmorrison wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i purchase a hell of a lot more stuff from Walmart than I do fine art.

What's interesting is that you don't realize how much of that stuff from Walmart had artistic processes embedded into it along the production line. Did those shower curtains have a design? Did your sweater have a color and style? Probably so, but you never pay attention to how the world of "fine art" refracts into your daily life. If the products were cheap, it's likely someone unpaid is responsible for the design. S…

I do. My aunt is a pattern designer for ... Shower curtains at Walmart. Yup she works for a supply house in NY that designs shower curtains and her main customer is walmart

So ironic I guess

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#668

Post by komali2 »

tt24 wrote: post #642
komali2 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why taking away money you could spend on goods or put into savings is ok when your boss does it, but not ok when the government does it. At least the government builds you a road in return.

Because one is consensual and the other isn’t.

Right, that's my point, unless you can work at a co-op, you have no say in how much value from your labor is extracted and given to someone else, and given the way society is designed, it's basically impossible to live without nonconsensually giving up the majority of your labor's value to someone else.

Whereas with taxes, if you don't like them, you can elect a different politician. Look at the Americans, they do it all the time, their tax rates go all over the place.

I want roads, libraries, firetrucks, and for my poop to vanish into oblivion when I pull the toilet handle. I don't really want my money to buy my boss a new car.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#669

Post by tomcam »

s_dev wrote: post #211
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

Irish here. It's a cultural thing. Ireland is the only country in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument. Art is seen as a worthwhile endeavour even if it can't necessarily support itself as a private endeavour. It's for the same reason galleries and museums are subsidised by the government. Anyone can call themselves an artist but to receive this money you would have to have a portfolio of work that…

Can you name a government-subsidized Irish artist who has been successfully promoted on the world stage?

I don't give a shit about Milton Friedman. I do give a shit about wage earners in Ireland who are being forced to pay for an artist welfare program. Ireland has a competitive economy.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#670

Post by qsera »

Ekaros wrote: post #319
qsera wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you find yourself alone in an Island, who would you want with you among the trades you listed?

Carpet installer? Most likely handy enough for building shelter and in general manual labour.

Good for you!

You will live long, but I will have more fun.

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