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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

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Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#661

Post by natmaka »

torginus wrote: post #502
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly we got a warning in 2014 with Crimea being seized and fossil apologists like Bjorn Lomborg argued against rolling out wind and solar faster in response. Because he's so "reasonable" and "pragmatic", he didn't say we shouldn't phase out Russian gas, he just said solar and wind don't work and so we should invent some totally new type of energy for this purpose. It's only with a few years hindsight that he's obvio…

This is just a conspiracy theory of mine, but how credible is the notion that in Germany, the Greens who campaigned (successfully) for nuclear shutdown were in fact funded by Russia?

In 2010 A. Merkel decreed a 12-year delay of the nuclear phase-out schedule ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#Chang... ), then the Fukushima accident happened (2011), then public opinion did demand a quick nuclear phase-out and no government could resist.

Hanno Klausmeier wrote what follows: CDU / CSU : Center right parties, Christian democrats FDP: Right wing liberals, moving to libertarians (Koch line) SPD: Social democrats, oldest party in Germany, old fashioned, a certain proximity to Unions. Greens: Rather left wing liberals, ecologic positions.

Who is in the government right now?

SPD the Greens and the FDP. Do they like each other? No they hate each other but they are forced to work together.

In the current political discussion the CDU/CSU (especially the CSU from Bavaria) are complaining the current government switched off the last remaining nuclear plants in Germany. The FDP which is part of the government is also criticizing the switch off of the last nuclear plants albeit being in the same government.

Now lets take a look which parties switched most of the nuclear plants off since Fukushima?

CDU/CSU: 14 FDP: 11 SPD: 9 Greens: 3

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#662

Post by throwaway_20357 »

clarionbell wrote: post #600

Meanwhile European chemical manufacturing is collapsing under weight of record energy costs.[1][2] Most of other manufacturing is somehow tied to chemicals, you can't build things without material after all. So this will feed ongoing industrial collapse, which now affects even Germany.[3] Meanwhile, low income households are running into financial issues if they want to turn up the heat.[4] The whole process has been…

Why "abundant cheap energy is a key requirement to survive in today's globalized markets" has not made it into the EU leaderships' mindset is beyond comprehension.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#663

Post by snickerer »

There is always so much grumbling and nitpicking about this topic, which I don't understand.

The production of renewable electricity is skyrocketing everywhere, far better than predicted. And that's not because of clever politics, but because the technology is good and cheap.

This has only advantages for everyone. Except for a few fossil fuel investors whose profits are marginally reduced. We may even be able to limit global warming to three degrees, giving us a better window of opportunity to come up with solutions for large-scale carbon capture in the 22nd century.

What's more, photovoltaics is super interesting and great to tinker with—it's huge nerd fun.

Can't we all just be happy when we see headlines like this?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#664

Post by natmaka »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #102
fred_is_fred wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much did Russia's recent invasion of Ukraine and nat gas price and supply changes accelerate things?

Ember Energy: European electricity prices and costs - https://ember-energy.org/data/european-electricity-prices-an... (updated daily)

We must take into account the public money spent to build and maintain the electricity system. In France, for example, electricity is cheaper than in most similar countries, but nuclear power costs taxpayers a huge amount of money.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#665

Post by natmaka »

anovikov wrote: post #648
etiennebausson wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nuclear fuel is also imported (but refined locally), so not sure it should be counted as 'local' in this case.

Nuclear fuel is around 2-3% of electricity cost, and there is too much worldwide supply for it to be of any concern, so it doesn't really matter where it comes from. For energy balance calculations it is accepted that nuclear energy is counted as produced where the reactor itself is.

Strategically, if nuclear power experiences a resurgence, procuring uranium could become difficult because the superpowers (Russia, China, and the US) will want to reserve it for themselves, and corresponding efforts have already begun.

The majority of nuclear-producing nations (Australia, Canada, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) will immediately comply.

Wind and sun, however, cannot be confiscated or withheld by blockade or embargo.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#666

Post by ricardonunez »

kokey wrote: post #47

Every time, over the years, that there has been some kind of headline saying renewables have overtaken fossil fuels, when you look at it a bit more closely there is always a big 'but'. For example, it was compared to coal (not taking into account electricity from gas), or it was for one day, or it was a percentage of new installations, or it excludes winter, includes nuclear etc. This time, however, it looks like it'…

This of what Germany needed to do and not go nuclear… on nuclear.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#667

Post by mlrtime »

lejalv wrote: post #467
epolanski wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ain't gonna use the dishwasher when the system wants me to, but when I can or want. I pay low energy prices during night than day, that's normal, but I'm still not gonna do laundry at 9 pm, I'd rather pay the 10/20 cents more during the day.

I do time my dishwasher and washing machine to align with peak solar where I live. I'd like to appeal to you to evolve that frame of mind. To help avoid first world problems (I can't wash a dish by hand, I need it now ) devolving into third-world ones (power cuts, crop failures, torrid tropical nights on mid latitudes, mountains disintegrated). Sometimes its important to remind we're on a generational mission, and it…

This whole thread (up and down) is why a lot of people like me don't do any of this mental gymnastics to 'lower my footprint'. It's exhausting, I mean if I bike to work today, that offsets that steak I ate. Just no (just an example).

When we are serious about this issue, we'll price it all in. The only way to affect change for most humans is incentive based decisions right in your face.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#668

Post by Synaesthesia »

fundatus wrote: post #643
Synaesthesia wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you need fossil fuels for feedstock in the chemical industry. It's one place they can't be replaced. The real reason is because Europe cut itself off from cheaper Russian gas.

It was Putin that cut off gas supply to Europe almost completely in autumn 2021 in preparation of the invasion and then completely shut it off during 2022. That was before the pipelines were blown up.

That's not true. Russia continued to supply gas after 2021.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#669

Post by mlrtime »

danny_codes wrote: post #270
mekdoonggi wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into sodium-ion batteries for which factories are coming online in China. The theoretical manufacturing cost of those is very very low, which will make solar + batteries very cheap. I suspect China will reach those costs ahead of schedule.

IMO this is a classic case of underestimating how far manufacturing improvements can get you on the cost scale. You see a promising technology in the lab and it’s hard to imagine a 1 million x reduction in price, yet we see that time and time again as tech gets scaled out. What’s wild to me is how the US is leaving itself in the dust. How the GOP imagines we’ll be competitive when the rest of the world can produce el…

>What’s wild to me is how the US is leaving itself in the dust. How the GOP imagines we’ll be competitive when the rest of the world can produce electricity 10x cheaper than we can is a wonder in itself

I almost paid Where in the EU can I get energy for 10x cheaper?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#670

Post by natmaka »

nandomrumber wrote: post #529
torginus wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a conspiracy theory of mine, but how credible is the notion that in Germany, the Greens who campaigned (successfully) for nuclear shutdown were in fact funded by Russia?

Whether true or not, it is almost entirely Greenpeace, and your local Greens party, who are to blame for us being in this mess . Without them raising panic about nuclear we could all be paying something closer to $40 - $80 a month for all the electricity we could reasonably consume, much like mobile phone plans / prepaid service. That would still leave transport and agriculture emissions to deal with, but they’d be e…

> if we had virtually unlimited

That's outdated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter

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