Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

661–670 of 1001 posts

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#661

Post by NewJazz »

hdhxgsc wrote: post #536
cosmicgadget wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called a bill of attainder and it's prohibited by the Constitution. Courts have said this also applies to executive orders though it's not as crystal clear. He's already done this to the Associated Press for ignoring his stupid Gulf of Mexico rename as well as to several law firms for representing democrats.

Bill of attainder is a legislative action. Doesn’t apply to the executive branch.

The commenter literally stated that it has been applied to executive orders by courts

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#662

Post by pen2l »

curt15 wrote: post #599
logicchains wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Harvard is not rolling over and doing whatever the regime asks of it The regime only started asking such things after large Pro-Palestinian protests took place at Harvard. That's absolutely the root cause, especially since Trump took hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from committed Zionists.

Check out Project Esther (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/18/us/project-esther-heritag... ). Fighting "antisemitism" is merely a pretense for seizing unchecked power.

I was recently banned from r/worldnews over a comment which I thought was relatively innocuous. Anyway, that made me start investigating and smelling things and suddenly when you see it, it's hard to ignore. r/worldnews is completely, unmistakably compromised. It's the third largest subreddit with about 50 million subscribers. The situation is so vivid and clear that it's unthinkable that owners are unaware that it is compromised, from moderations to the dominant commenting user base. So what in the world is happening and how did it come to be this way? Spez et al were compromised? How?

The most charitable and perhaps the most rational explanation is that the 'propaganda' effort is impressively, surprisingly, exhaustively grassroots [1] and that's why reddit's overlords cannot simply contain it -- after all, it's real people, very committed and very real indeed. Although I would think that even if this were true, were reddit's operators uncompromised, they'd at least feel compelled to investigate the moderators of the subreddit which has a readership of 50 million, because even if the activity is organic, what's going on crosses a certain threshold of what should be permissible, if only for the richness of debate and discussion. I won't approach the complex topic of whether grassroots led propaganda effort constitutes something that is illegitimate and whether it warrants management, moderation, or some sort of penalty.

I'm not extremely educated about the complex history of Israel and jewish people, though I'm trying to learn more these days. Knowing what I know so far: It is a unique group of people for sure, and 2000 years of oppression, I think, has resulted in a special kind of cohesion that even when scattered throughout the world, they partake in strong self-advocacy. In my experience, this kind of self-advocacy doesn't exist with any other group.

I apologize if my comment reads prejudiced or inappropriate, please tell me if it does, certainly and obviously it is not meant to be.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/24/gaza-is...

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#663

Post by alaxhn »

lamp_book wrote: post #590
alaxhn wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of "them" and I care deeply about higher education which is why I am very sad that we could not achieve reform without resorting to measures such as threatening the international student admission process. I don't know anything about the people teaching the “truth” about the 2020 election in Oklahoma public schools but if this is happening I agree with you it is very wrong. "If our schools have lost any edge…

In what way does this or anything else Trump has done or indicated to do advance the state of education towards the goals of the reform you are talking about?

I also don't think I claimed that "Trump has done or indicated to do advance the state of education". His administration has addressed grievances that I agree with but they have not introduced the positive reforms that I would support.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#664

Post by goatlover »

TimPC wrote: post #446
vel0city wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they believe have opinions that are not in the interest of national security So people committing thought crimes huh? This is the US in 2025 - indefinitely imprisoning people without any actual charges for having opinions the current administration doesn't like.

This is the country of free speech zones away from the main event in the early 2000s and sending WWI dissenters to jail in 1914. You’ve long pretended to have freedoms you’ve never actually been given and this is hardly new.

More like those freedoms get violated on occasion in the name of national security, because administrations are largely able to get away with it during certain crisis.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#665

Post by dmvdoug »

firesteelrain wrote: post #645
dmvdoug wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we gave the SEVIS revocation letter demanding a handful of categories of information, one of which is “protest activity.” And they are already required under the statute to provide one category of information requested: “any disciplinary action taken by the institution against the alien as a result of the alien’s being convicted of a crime or, in the case of a participant in a designated exchange visitor program,…

My point is we don’t know if they actually provided all the info that is statutorily required and/or the government is saying within those statutory rules you still didn’t provide it so by law it’s revoked (for now). We only have statements from both sides. Seeing as it’s private most likely won’t see it via FOIA

Nah, this one is going to federal court for sure. It’ll all come out. But part of the rules are also that schools must provide the relevant information within 30 days of the start of an alien’s academic term. There’s a whole system set up to handle this. The system is not, government, go ask for this set of information whenever you feel like it and if the school doesn’t hop to it immediately, you may suspend. It says that if a school does not provide the information within the relevant period before the term starts, it shall be suspended. There is no discretionary wiggle room for the government to be like, well, I don’t think you’re giving me enough, or you’re not being cooperative enough.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#667

Post by ty6853 »

chairmansteve wrote: post #632
ty6853 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The semester is already over, many of them went home. They'll simply be refused when they try to come back.

Not only refused, they may be locked up for a couple of weeks, as has happened to various tourists.

Sure, I was locked up by DHS/immigration, and I am a US citizen. CBP/ICE/HSI doesn't really need much of anything to lock you up, when they did it to me they told me I wasn't even under arrest.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#668

Post by jltsiren »

bko wrote: post #636
kristopolous wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, this is how we will be competitive - defunding universities, deporting the best and brightest, dismantling education, and cutting off trade. I mean seriously, if a malicious saboteur was running things, what would the differences be?

Harvard doesn't have higher academic standards for foreign students. So I don't think foreign students are any "better or brighter" than their American counterparts. So if you can find equally qualified American students on the margin shouldn't you do so? I think an American university that benefits greatly from American taxpayers and institutions should primarily benefit American students. If you're picking truly ex…

Academic standards are kind of irrelevant when it comes to Harvard undergraduate admissions.

Harvard is a tiny university at the absolute top of the prestige hierarchy. As far as they are concerned, every serious (non-legacy/donor) applicant is a truly exceptional student. At least to the extent it can be determined from the admission materials and a short interview. They could choose randomly from all good enough applicants with no noticeable impact on academic standards.

But Harvard is not in the business of educating the most deserving. Instead, they want to educate the ones who will be successful and influential in the future, and to give them the best networking opportunities possible. The standard joke is that if the admissions officer knew that the applicant would become a tenured professor at Harvard, they would reject the applicant for the lack of success. Most Harvard graduates fail to reach that standard, but it's better to choose a likely failure (and an unlikely unicorn) over a certain failure.

PhD admissions are another story. At that stage, Harvard starts caring a lot more about academic potential. They don't want to restrict their recruitment to the US, because Americans are only a small fraction of the people with access to good education. Especially because Americans are reluctant to do a PhD due to the low pay effectively mandated by public research funders.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#669

Post by tzs »

orochimaaru wrote: post #164
Braxton1980 wrote: post #66

I get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.

Exactly what “consequence” are you talking about? Voting by design is protected from retribution.

There are consequences that can follow in response to protected actions that don't rise to the level of prohibited retribution.

For example I can give a speech in a public square where I advocate some completely stupid conspiracy theory and I do it in the most offensive language possible pissing off everyone who hears, and be protected by the First Amendment.

That doesn't stop you from inferring from that speech that (1) I'm an idiot and (2) I'm a very unpleasant person to be around and then based on those inferences declining to hire me if I apply to you for a job. Neither idiots nor assholes are protected classes so you are free to discriminate against me. That you learned that I'm an idiot and asshole through my First Amendment protected speech shouldn't be relevant.

If someone lets it be known who they voted for and their reasons something similar could happen.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#670

Post by sorcerer-mar »

gosub100 wrote: post #574
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private schools can create and enforce their own rules how they wish. The United States government is forbidden from creating or enforcing rules on content of speech. It's actually only a 1st Amendment question in one case and not the other. Looks like they tricked ya though! (Technically it's a 1st Amendment question in both cases in that private entities have a 1st Amendment right to create rules for their own camp…

And private schools can suffer the consequences of oppressing certain groups.

They sure can! You can choose not to attend them. You can go stand on public property and yell at them.

Under the US Constitution, "the consequences" are absolutely not allowed to include weaponization of the State through coercion, punishment, or threat to control what the public thinks.

Fascist goobers skipping out on their "Basics of Being an American" course lmao

Post reply on HN