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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#661

Post by Terretta »

pornel wrote: post #279
mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

Tim Cook’s Apple is all about increasing the Services Revenue. The line has to go up. Apple exists for their shareholders, not users.

> The line has to go up. Apple exists for their shareholders, not users.

Who does Epic exist for?

This "they exist for the shareholders" is an argument that cancels itself out, as it's true of all firms.

So you have to look at who's next on the list. Is the company for people looking to place ads? Is the company for publishers of games? Who is it for?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#662

Post by tristan957 »

kjreact wrote: post #494
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you also defend Microsoft of the 90's with the same argument for the similar issue? At least Microsoft had no way of stopping you selling apps for Windows but Apple is a next level of nefarious.

Since Epic is fighting Apple, let’s overlook the fact it is charged by the FTC for using dark patterns to sell virtual costumes for billions; an interesting choice for a champion of consumer rights.

How does that apply here?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#663

Post by zengid »

This is some spicy shit from Apple:

> “In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them,” Schiller reminds the game maker in the letter dated February 23, 2024. “You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple’s rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Malicious Compliance.’ And you have complained about what you called ‘Junk Fees’ and ‘Apple taxes.”

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#664

Post by overgard »

SllX wrote: post #419
jsnell wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12. The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9). Apple don't get to deny access to their main competitor in this space just as a show of force. That is not fair, reasonable or non-discrimina…

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

I find it hard to see Apple being in the right here. While I'm not so naive as to think one company is "good" and the other "bad", I do think that as developers Epic is fighting for our best interests. Apple's app store monopoly serves only Apple.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#665

Post by XorNot »

Zak wrote: post #656
ethbr1 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing that gets most on my nerves is the ridiculous "protecting users security and privacy". There's a distinction between "secure for users by default" and "secure from users" Apple (and Apple fans) really like to muddy the two. You can build a perfectly secure ecosystem by default... that still has an escape hatch (covered with warnings) that the user retains the right to use. Apple chose in its mobile ecosys…

This complaint is valid for Google's Android as well for building a remote attestation system apps can use to see if the user has modified the operating system.

"Bring Your Own Device" has honestly been pretty pathological in this regard. I like only having my phone on me, I very much dislike the various levels of invasive that corporate compliance software is designed around (Google do...not a bad job here in just having the domains separated, but I'd be much happier if it all had to live in it's own VM with only the access I grant it back to the main device).

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#666

Post by jarsin »

Haven't seen much discussion about Unreal Engine here.

Epic stated in court filings that it would consider Unreal a failed business if it lost the ability to maintain unreal for ios.

Many 3d enterprise apps need to run on ipads. This is hughe blow to unreal.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#667

Post by ethbr1 »

Zak wrote: post #656
ethbr1 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing that gets most on my nerves is the ridiculous "protecting users security and privacy". There's a distinction between "secure for users by default" and "secure from users" Apple (and Apple fans) really like to muddy the two. You can build a perfectly secure ecosystem by default... that still has an escape hatch (covered with warnings) that the user retains the right to use. Apple chose in its mobile ecosys…

This complaint is valid for Google's Android as well for building a remote attestation system apps can use to see if the user has modified the operating system.

In Google's case, at least they have the technical fig leaf of being able to blame third parties.

I.e. Google only implements Play Integrity (nee SafetyNet) attestation. Third parties decide what to use it for. Google has no control over those third parties.

That said, in practice it's 90% about controlling and limiting open source / third-party Android forks.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#668

Post by Brian_K_White »

scarface_74 wrote: post #410
Brian_K_White wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve hated industry standards. The only time he ever said anything else was when every web site in the world ran on flash and iphone couldn't do flash. Every iphone user was reminded daily about how kneecapped it is when they can't pull up the web site for the restaursnt to check hours or call up for a reservation. That kind of life experience was his entire focus and his showpiece product failed utterly at it. And…

So now the truth. Adobe claimed that if Apple had let them, they could have gotten Flash running on the first iPhone that had 128Kb of RAM and a 400Mhz processor. Safari could barely run on the phone. If you scrolled fast, you would get a checkerbox while waiting for the page to render. When Adobe did finally bring Flash to mobile in 2010-2011 on Android, it required a 1Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM and it still ran b…

An Andoid user could actually afford a phone that could run flash.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#669

Post by can16358p »

pjerem wrote: post #641
wkat4242 wrote: post #609

Ummm lol. So now sideloading is allowed (with lots of costs associated mind you) and if someone wants to use it Apple will just kick them off the platform? :') So first malicious compliance with all the inflated costs and then they don't even allow people to use it. I really hope the EU will crack down on this BS and force Apple to allow real sideloading. But anyway I've written Apple out of my life a long time ago.

> But anyway I've written Apple out of my life a long time ago. I love my iPhone and my Mac. They are great devices. I’ve been using Apple products happily despite having pretty few acquaintance with the Apple brand (which I feel incredibly arrogant). All of those stories about the DMA and the total lack of good faith from Apple when it comes to respect the rules are making me strongly reconsider buying new Apple pro…

Similar here. I like their products, their design and don't have anything better to my needs. I even find some sense about this whole DMA thing to their respect. But their user hostility and "you are wrong we are always right and we never accept that we are wrong" kind of gaslighting attitude of them as a company really makes me lose trust in them as a customer.

While I still use Apple devices, I wouldn't have thought of switching to another ecosystem, say, 8 years ago.

Now, if there was a good alternative, I'd seriously consider.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#670

Post by overgard »

SllX wrote: post #489
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. This is funny to point out since they did it specifically to sue over it (you pretty much can't other wise). So Apple has their draconian 30% cut or there's literally no other way to have an application run on iOS policy, you can't challenge it without breaking it so you can sue, and because you broke it to sue you are now permanently barred from every maki…

They had the alternative of pulling their software on principle and suing, but they wanted the fight they would have by having Apple suspend and then terminate their developer accounts to bring more public opinion to their side, and they sure got the fight. As a developer enrolled in the program, it would have been hard to argue they didn’t have standing as long as what they were arguing had plausible legal merit (it…

I realize the gravity is a lot less here, but consider Civil Rights protests where people intentionally but peacefully broke (bad) laws in protest. I would consider what Epic did in a similar way.
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