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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone who has ever been on a bus, and who has the money to never get on a bus again, buses are a non-starter. Feel free to elaborate, because that's not a universal position.

You ever been on a bus with a raving lunatic? Wiled away the hours as the bus chugs along circuitously to a point that is not quite at your destination? Tried to carry heavy shopping on a bus? Walked to a bus stop through bad weather? Taken one mode of transport that was delayed, making you miss the next leg? Waited forever for a bus that never comes? Public transport sucks balls. In the world's densest, biggest citi…

> You ever been on a bus with a raving lunatic?

Ever been in a car driving next to a raving lunatic? Nearly get forced offroad at 60mph into a gully by a braindead 'passer'? 'Throwing tax money...' ... you mean, like building yet another $500M freeway that almost immediately becomes congested? (Heavy shopping: Did that recliner fit in the back of your BMW?)

I've ridden metro buses since I sold my Dodge van in 2006. Total raving lunatics: 1. Collisions/repairs,oil changes, tires, license fees: $0. Total buses that chugged: none. Grocery-shopped by bus? Always. Waiting for a bus that never came? 1.

Heavy shopping? delivered. (It's a thing now.) Bad weather: usually I wait until tomorrow.

Edit: 17 years * 10,000 mi/yr = 170,000 miles. @10 mpg = 17,000 gallons. @$3/gal ≈ $50 grand. P.P.S.

@Car engine efficiency 25% .... ≈ 12,700 gallons wud have gone directly to fumes and heat. ≈ $38K.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're leaving how a key part, at least in America which is racism. Whites ran to the suburbs to escape particular groups and quite frankly still do albeit now it's more in the form of urban sprawl.

This is BS. People go to suburbs because they want a nice house, not because they are trying to run away from race. I grew up in a mix-race suburb. I loved my houses and my friends houses. We had great times on our cul-de-sac since it didn't allow through traffic it was safe to play in the street. We loved our backyard pool. We loved our garage that had a radial saw and a large tool desk. We loved our large 30x20ft f…

No need to be personally defensive. What the other comment says is entirely true. There was a mass migration, particularly during the civil rights movement. Here's just one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight#/media/File:Gary,...

Plenty of other data shows the same thing. Racism is very much a part of what built suburban america in the large even if it doesn't apply to you or your family personally.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

How do we address the people who live in areas where the grocery store is not within walking/biking distance. Living car free in a city built for it can be bliss. But tons of people do not live in cities built for it. Do we rebuild those cities? Force them to move?

We change the zoning code so that it becomes legal to build a grocery store in those areas, then let the market do its work.

Yes, we rebuild those cities: but that need not be done by force. We can simply relax the draconian Euclidean zoning rules which prohibit traditional mixed-use city building.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#664
post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Singapore One approach is to replicate Singapore massive taxation on vehicles, which disincentivizes ownership. To own a vehicle in Singapore, it costs ~2.5x the normal cost due to taxes. As such, it has one of the highest uses of public transit, bicycles and walking in the world.

Higher tax is not a must, one can have amazing public transportation infrastructure like in Tokyo or Hong Kong, but most US cities can't do that with all the roads and highways in place.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

Hmm, at this point I have to be in the office 4 days a week thanks to ratcheting up RTO, but my bike commute is the best thing about that, sitting around during the pandemic just made me lose muscle and feel down. In the PNW, snow and ice aren't usually a problem, so it's just lots of cold rain, but with decent gear that isn't really a problem.

Same here. I commute 3 days per week, 15 km each way. It takes me 35-40 minutes, but I enjoy it and get great exercise. I spend the time thinking about my day, and am happier and more productive if I've gotten that exercise.

I do get the occasional flat, but I learned to change it myself, and can get a new 4$ tube on in about ten minutes.

I pack rain pants and a shell and just put them on if a bit of rain comes. I only give up when the roads are snowed in and haven't been cleared yet, which is only a few days per year.

Most complaints about weather and maintenance are easily dealt with with a few basic skills and simple preparation.

It might sound like year round commuting is extreme - but ive found it far easier and far more enjoyable than I expected.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#667
post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're not already, you should advocate for the infrastructure in your city. these things do not happen on their own, we must push for the future we desire.

That's a good idea. What do you think is a good starting point for this?

Look to join neighborhood associations that influence city policy. Reach out to your council person or the mayor, depending on how big your city is. Talk to neighbors.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#668
I can speak to my own experience as a regular e-bike rider in my city which has built one basic bit of infrastructure that's dedicated to micromobility.

I've been commuting on an e-bike for the past year, and I've recently ordered a replacement e-bike with newer technology (https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/e-14). I have racks with waterproof panniers mounted semi-permanently. I pack my work clothes and laptop in bags that I can easily slide into and out of the panniers. I use an StVZO light powered by the bike's battery pack that illuminates the path in front of me effectively while respecting oncoming people.

I live in an American city that built a 10-mile rails-to-trails crushed gravel "linear park" about 8 years ago, and I've been commuting on it by bicycle since it opened, at first on a non-electric bicycle. It's about 10 miles long, and I ride the entire length of it every day I go into the office.

The trail's cost to develop and maintain is a fraction of what it cost to build and maintain infrastructure for vehicular traffic. I haven't been able to find any reports of injuries from collisions on the trail. It's quiet and peaceful to ride along. The air is mostly free of emissions from gasoline motors, tires, or brake pads. The only "road closures" have been due to work on roads that cross it. There is never a traffic jam. There are no stop lights or stop signs, only crosswalks where motorist traffic stops for me as soon as I get to them.

Once I get downtown where I work I never have to worry about traffic, since I can bypass it in the bike lanes. You have to pay a lot to park a car near my office, but I can stow my bike in a locked cage for free. If I want to combine my commute time with cardio time all I need to do is switch off the motor, pedal away, and take a shower once I get to the office. If I instead just want to get there without needing to change clothes or anything I switch on the motor.

There is a shopping district about 2 miles from my neighborhood that's often congested. There's a quiet street and a raised trail through a shallow lake that I often take my e-bike on. Trying to navigate the parking lots is a nightmare with hardly any parking and near-constant gridlock on busy days. I zip past all of that and park at the racks directly in front of the entrance to the stores. I don't get bags at the store, but instead transfer what I buy directly from the cart into my panniers.

Maintenance on my e-bike is a fraction of maintenance for my car. I have sealant in my tubes, and that's made the occasional puncture a non-event for me. The space that the bike takes in my garage is almost negligible. It's light enough to hoist up on a wall hook. I charge the removable battery pack from a 120v outlet.

If something were to really go wrong with my e-bike, I have another much less expensive meat-powered bike with a rack that I can transfer the panniers to and use while I get the e-bike repaired.

My workplace has a sensible WFH policy, where I come into the office a couple of times a week for in-person collaboration and can WFH the rest of the time. I check the weather forecast for the week on Sunday and move in-person meetings around to days when it's going to be nicest. If I really need to go in on a bad weather day, my bike has full-size fenders, and I have shoe covers, gloves, and water-resistant clothing that make riding in the rain not so bad. I still prefer to ride on the trail in the rain rather than drive my car mainly because traffic tends to be worst on those days.

My own quality of life has benefited immensely from an e-bike and a single relatively inexpensive gravel trail that my city converted from some old railroad tracks. As more people discover the joys of e-biking, I hope that translates to more pressure on municipalities to build infrastructure that makes micromobility more safe and comfortable for everyone.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class 1, so it will assist up to 20mph. I typically cruise at around 15mph on my own (I'm in a similar weight class as a rider). For getting around my town, trips are not much longer than my car.

>assist up to 20mph (I'm in a similar [250lb] weight class as a rider) So, how does it do on the occassional hills of a Chattanooga (e.g.)? I'm about to visit my local store, which has one in stock, available today.

Not too great on steeper hills due to having a hub motor, but the trade-off is hub motors are really cheap.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This site infuriates me sometimes at the complete and utter lack of understanding of most of the United States Most of the US in what capacity? Square miles? Because the majority of the population lives in Cities. I love reading comments like yours. All throughout this thread you've vehemently argued that your perspective is the right one. It's a reminder to me that close minded people like you actually exist! You'…

Saying the majority lives in cities is pretty BS though. They aren’t all living in walkable downtowns like Manhattan but rather are living in places like Houston, Phoenix, or Denver that have a few sq miles of what many would consider walkability, very spotty public transportation, and weather for part of the year that keeps all but the insane from wanting to walk to their destination.

Oh how the goalposts doth shift. We are talking about ebiking, not walking. Those of us who are mindful of ecology, climate, and urbanism know lack of walkability is a problem. It doesn't have to be, but it is. It is another issue worth addressing at the policy and funding level.

If people can walk for some of their trips 50-80% of the year and ebike for most of the rest, that is a huge win even if not everyone can adapt to the 'unbearable' sacrifices that go along with that kind of change. "But not literally everyone can do it so it's a terrible suggestion and you are an elitist." Ok cool.

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