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AWS and Blockchain

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Re: AWS and Blockchain

#661

Post by oblio »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #370
bartread wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tim is dead on with this observation, this is amazing. I'm not saying Tim's wrong, but one of the problems that Ive seen a lot - to the point of being tempted to use the word "constantly" - with blockchain is this sort of gushing rhetoric that actually does a really poor job of explaining why it's amazing, and especially of explaining why it's amazing in a few short paragraphs of jargon-free plain English that anyo…

You're right, it is hard to explain. That's why I believe long term it's going to be more like AWS - it will be financial plumbing that firms build upon and most end users won't even know they're using it. I think a lot of HN doesn't get it because they don't work in finance, but everyone I've talked to who works in finance (or has to deal with their archaic systems) is really excited about the possibilities. Then ag…

> You're right, it is hard to explain. That's why I believe long term it's going to be more like AWS - it will be financial plumbing that firms build upon and most end users won't even know they're using it.

It sounds good, but ALL the money needs to be taken out of the ecosystem.

They need to go back to the drawing board and work in silence and fix their core problems: scalability, respecting core financial laws such as AML and KYC, and then they need to present their platform.

The problem with that is that it's fundamental research, making no money, possibly for decades.

Ain't no one got time for that.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#662

Post by oblio »

jrek wrote: post #612
TimJRobinson wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it is hard to explain. That's why I believe long term it's going to be more like AWS - it will be financial plumbing that firms build upon and most end users won't even know they're using it. I think a lot of HN doesn't get it because they don't work in finance, but everyone I've talked to who works in finance (or has to deal with their archaic systems) is really excited about the possibilities. Then ag…

Steve Jobs in a university lecture in 1991 (iirc) articulated the vision among him and his industry contemporaries of consumers using thin clients accessing data from the cloud, a reality that took two decades to really come to fruition and that had to wait for infrastructure to catch up - the point being that while some people didn’t see the value of the internet, people in the know were able to simply and quickly a…

Let's drop Steve Jobs as some sort of magic visionary.

If you really want to talk about a true tech visionary, use:

Douglas Engelbart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart

Mother of All Demos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

> The 90-minute presentation demonstrated for the first time many of the fundamental elements of modern personal computing: windows, hypertext, graphics, efficient navigation and command input, video conferencing, the computer mouse, word processing, dynamic file linking, revision control, and a collaborative real-time editor.

> December 9, >>

1968, not 1991.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#663

Post by oblio »

miracle2k wrote: post #450
threeseed wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having one neutral platform, controlled by no one, with standardized API's and immutable open programs that anyone can permissionlessly build on - is amazing It is unquestionably amazing. But it's not the reality. Most data is not stored on the blockchain but instead in proprietary databases due to the prohibitive cost. And even if it was free the VCs are pushing hard for a defensible moat i.e. lock your users in w…

The data that matters is all on-chain: the smart contracts and the balances. This is why what Tim talks about has actually played out, and we have seen incredible composability between different protocols. > We've seen this play out with OpenSea and how its view of NFTs is different from what's on chain. If anything, the NFT ecosystem proofs this point. It consists of a dizzying array of aggregators, lending platform…

The fact that you use the NFT ecosystem as proof of anything is baffling.

NFT doesn't even store its data.

It's not even a true protocol that mandates things ensuring stability.

You're buying thin air.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#664

Post by oblio »

_9omd wrote: post #505
TimJRobinson wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this, but working with DeFi on Ethereum for a while I've realized the killer feature is actually permissionless composability. Which is why enterprise block chains make little sense. Having one neutral platform, controlled by no one, with standardized API's and immutable open programs that anyone can permissionlessly build on - is amazing. We've never had this before, and it's incredible how fast the…

> the killer feature is actually permissionless composability This right here is it! Everyone is always focused on the main feature being decentralization, but decentralization isn't a feature, it's an implementation detail. Decentralization is certainly a requirement for these goals, but permissionlessness is the goal. I'll note that permisionless for users, in the ability to create accounts and send transactions is…

How does this work faced with legal systems, which > permissions?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#665

Post by kranke155 »

adammarples wrote: post #460
kranke155 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I feel like the tide is finally turning on this. The Ethereum VM (and its derivatives) is one of the biggest innovations in recent history. I've been yelling at the top of my lungs why NFTs have revolutionized digital art and happy to see the top comment nails it - a zero trust verification environment makes it possible to sell it on an open global market. This just wasn't there before. Blockchains are use…

Have nfts revolutionised digital art? I haven't seen it. Stable diffusion is potentially revolutionary, but nfts seem like last years fad.

Stable Diffusion is certainly revolutionary as a tool of mass IP theft and data laundering.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#666

Post by halpmeh »

oblio wrote: post #651
halpmeh wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the output is guaranteed to be correct. Let’s say you give me a program and ask me to run it for you. Can you guarantee that I won’t tamper with the executable? No you can’t. You can’t trust the output of an arbitrary program you give me to run. The only way you could trust my result would be to run the program yourself and verify I provided you the correct output. If you run the program yourself, then what’s th…

Are smart contracts Turing complete?

Yes

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#667

Post by dandanua »

BenoitP wrote: post #645
dandanua wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an excellent flowchart. BTW, there is a real example of meaningful blockchain use for auditing single source data (the "caveat" in the flowchart). It's the hypercore protocol https://hypercore-protocol.org/

That's very interesting. Would you mind coming up with a concrete and detailed business case? In this example you will provide, who are the entities with write access? How do they have a hard time deciding who should be control of the data store?

In the hypercore protocol participants control only their own data. So, no write conflicts. But they need to verify parts of data of other participants. The blockchain (specifically, the Merkle tree) helps with that. An alternative solution would be to just sign the pairs `(recordCounter, recordData)` instead of putting records in a tree and signing the root node. But the hash tree also helps to verify integrity, in addition to authenticity.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#668

Post by throwaway290 »

acdha wrote: post #342
throwaway290 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payment processors saw the writing on the wall. The reason they did what they did and PH made a 180 and disposed of incriminating content all in one month is because justice system has teeth and they did not want to find themselves liable. And justice system has teeth because PH is a proper company participating in a financial system. Good luck stopping a criminal in another country profiting from crime by accepting…

> Good luck stopping a criminal in another country profiting from crime by accepting bitcoin Interesting choice of examples: the FBI found bitcoin to be very helpful in exactly that context since it gave hard evidence linking criminals together. https://www.wired.com/story/tracers-in-the-dark-welcome-to-v... This idea that police agencies haven’t figured out how to talk with their colleagues in other countries is odd…

It is helpful with those who don't use mixers, like the article says. I'm sure criminals not smart enough to use mixers are not the ones making the real money.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#669

Post by anon400232 »

subradios wrote: post #123

Blockchains are an incredible technology. It is obvious that their first attempted uses are contractual and monetary, because blockchain guarantees can make things better fastest in those arenas. The unfortunate part is it doesn't seem like anyone has really figured out the how yet. I am reminded of the Web, Amazon was the first company to really "get" e-commerce and made all the money - there will likely be a simila…

Merkle trees are an incredible technology too.

My point? There are many incredible technologies, but not all are "secret weapons" that justify a seismic industry shift. Not all are suitable or able to upend existing technologies.

Fitness of purpose is contextual. Some of the most amazing innovations in computer science cannot be captured by one industry. Most do not lead to widespread disruption.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#670

Post by anon400232 »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #246
davide_v wrote: post #243

In Italy a famous news website is using blockchain since 2020 to, I quote literally: "help readers check source of news", "strengthen bonds of trust between its organization and its readers and customers", "trace the history and source of each news item." News (EN): https://www.ansa.it/english/news/science_tecnology/2020/04/0... Example of news in the blockchain: https://blockchain.check.ansa.it/landing/b150aff9f028f…

If they add every revision on it, it could be interesting, but i doubt they do that. One interesting thing I have been seeing recently is newspapers quickly changing news a few hours after they posted it, in reaction to public opinion of said news (or maybe some editorial "request"). In th BBC its quite egregious, they have been posting some news, and a few hours later changing the headline and the photo, to either s…

Share a link demonstrating the BBC's egregiousness please.
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