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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#661

Post by siscia »

I am very naïve on this, but unions seems to always been portrayed as negative to business and I really don't understand this view.

Of course, if you are paying more money from getting the same amount of value from an employer, that is bad for business.

But this is not necessarily what can happen, giving more benefits, more stable schedule, better wages, more WLB means being more competitive in the labour market, it means retaining worker more easily. If the company is not wise enough to do it by itself, still it doesn't means that it cannot be a net positive for the company itself.

The whole idea of treating humans as leaking, opexed, robots will need to be fixed, but it can be done and it can bring benefits.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#662

Post by idontwantthis »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #398
rootusrootus wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

I also want government out of my life as much as possible. I don't want them controlling what I do with my body or who I love, or how I present myself. Who should I vote for?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#663

Post by oblio »

tuckerman wrote: post #454
oblio wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alphabet The Company Formerly Known As Google, that literally had to settle (i.e. paid money to not lose the trial) for collusion to depress employee wages? That company? Yeah, employee interests at heart > Meta For employees I hear The Company Formerly Knows as Facebook is actually quite good. But they're not a charity. > were catered to with many great benefits (including catering) Those benefits are cheap when b…

Isn’t getting caught and settling some evidence that the system works to some extent? I know what the benefits are for, and while there are some good side-effects for the company, a lot of them are genuinely good for the employees as well. I had enough massage credits, Covid cue tests, and time spent in great gyms to attest to that. If they can be bought in bulk, all the more reason I appreciate it being someone’s jo…

> Isn’t getting caught and settling some evidence that the system works to some extent?

What kind of broken logic is this?

Getting caught is precisely proof that the LEGAL system works, and that companies try to and succeed in abusing it.

Those companies agreed to those illegal practices in 2006, if not earlier, and they had to pay those settlements in 2015, 9 full years later.

They probably made out like bandits during those 9 years and saved a ton more money than they had to pay.

And regarding your negotiating skills, most of us think we're better than we actually are.

Plus, this is a social thing. Let's assume you're part of the 1%. What do we do about the 99%? Do we just piss on their heads from a great height, "f** you, got mine"-style, pardon my French?

Unions should be a valid option.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#664

Post by ZeroGravitas »

WalterBright wrote: post #597
jotm wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because good safety nets means people don't have to take risks on business. So that leaves only the people who want to start a business. Who tend to leave for countries where it's easier to run a business and where they don't have to pay for the safety nets, but that's besides the point. As for freedoms, I don't know. Not that much of a difference between US, UK and Germany from what I can tell.

Why are the FAANG companies all based in the US?

Same reason they make most of their physical stuff in China. The government allows the most abuses.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#665

Post by 0x7E3 »

idontwantthis wrote: post #662
ARandomerDude wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

I also want government out of my life as much as possible. I don't want them controlling what I do with my body or who I love, or how I present myself. Who should I vote for?

Libertarians.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#666

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

siscia wrote: post #661

I am very naïve on this, but unions seems to always been portrayed as negative to business and I really don't understand this view. Of course, if you are paying more money from getting the same amount of value from an employer, that is bad for business. But this is not necessarily what can happen, giving more benefits, more stable schedule, better wages, more WLB means being more competitive in the labour market, it…

It is a unique feature of the American landscape, this aversion to unions.

Deeply rooted in complicated history of labor in the US from what I understand.

Here in Eastern Europe labor unions were at a certain point the source of political power, both for the establishment under socialism, and for the opposition movements before/after the iron curtain dropped. So, here banning or fighting against unions is unthinkable - they are considered a “good” thing.

It’s hard to think about this labor/business tension when you realize that all thought on this subject is constantly being monitored, lobbied and influenced.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#667

Post by ZeroGravitas »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #586
truffdog wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican party was the party of big business before the end of the civil war.

It also used to be the party of civil rights when Democrats were the ones engaged in voter suppression.

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#668

Post by mantas »

WalterBright wrote: post #588
Retric wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.

Paying less taxes is not government "spending". A person's income is not government property that the government generously allows the person to keep some of it.

Reducing taxes, especially in a selective way, is essentially state spending money on subsidies.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#669

Post by watwut »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #398
rootusrootus wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

I don't think people ask for social support from goverment as "emotional" support or "expression of deep love" - the way you seem to interpret it. It is way more about practical down to earth "do I get health care or not" thing. It is also about what kind of environment is build - both social and physical.

Also, golden handcuff means enough money so that you don't want to leave. I don't think such high govermental support exists all that often.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#670

Post by mantas »

jdmichal wrote: post #496
ARandomerDude wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

As a European… The problem with safety net is it brings taxes to cover that safety net. And regulations for companies to make them part of that safety net. In the end it makes it harder to start a small business and more comfy to be employed. Essentially helping big businesses to stamp out competition.

Some safety net without the negatives would be nice. But where will the money come from?

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