US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins • Hacker News Board

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#661

Post by Hnrobert42 » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

qubit000 wrote: post #614

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not mindless robots. They are doing the best the can living in a totalitarian state operating the most sophisticated internal surveillance ever. How can you claim they the CCP has support with a straight face? First, says who? CCP-controlled media? Second, would the average Chinese person answer honestly? Third, the Chinese have never experienced real democracy. Asking them if they support the CCP is meaning…

Why would a totalitarian state allow 150M+ of its citizens to travel abroad annually pre-covid to experience 'democracy/freedom' yet despite doing so they overwhelmingly returned to their supposedly oppressive country. As for 'real democracy' no country has it least of all the US which more accurately an oligarchic plutocracy with power held by select few/wealthy(ie top 1%).

Ultimately, they are sufficiently confident in their indoctrination that they are unafraid that exposure to other ideologies will lead to a rejection of their own. Where they are not confident, they do limit travel. See their cancellation of passports for Hong Kongers.

I will not respond to your whataboutism argument as it is beside my point.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#662

Post by qubit000 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #661

qubit000 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a totalitarian state allow 150M+ of its citizens to travel abroad annually pre-covid to experience 'democracy/freedom' yet despite doing so they overwhelmingly returned to their supposedly oppressive country. As for 'real democracy' no country has it least of all the US which more accurately an oligarchic plutocracy with power held by select few/wealthy(ie top 1%).

Ultimately, they are sufficiently confident in their indoctrination that they are unafraid that exposure to other ideologies will lead to a rejection of their own. Where they are not confident, they do limit travel. See their cancellation of passports for Hong Kongers. I will not respond to your whataboutism argument as it is beside my point.

The govt is confident that most citizens will see the downsides of democracy and how it leads to much social divisiveness and govt dysfunction as evidenced by the US.

HKrs fomenting riots/violence and breaking the law have rightfully had their passports confiscated to face consequences of their actions.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#663

Post by infamia » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

qubit000 wrote: post #660

infamia wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link you posted states that bioweapons research stopped in 1969 (including at Ft. Detrick) as the grandparent stated.

It stopped being the 'central' bio research lab in US but still continued such research thereafter.

The only bio research done after 1969 anyhwere in the US was to find cures, treatments, and the like which is in the link you provided.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#664

Post by tal8d » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 10:01 AM UTC

joshuahughes wrote: post #646

tal8d wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very public shuttering of facilities, the absence of military doctrine, etc. Yes, there could be secret congressional funding for a secret research lab serving a secret component of the military that secretly maintains readiness to do something that is strategically counterproductive and categorically denied. Do I really need to go on with how silly that line of thought is?

I really don’t understand how anyone can have such a profound level of trust in organisations that have proved themselves utterly unworthy of that trust. Have the lessons of Snowden really been forgotten this quickly??

Well that is a major mischaracterization of my views on the US government. It is funny that you mention Snowden, because many of us were called paranoid conspiracy nuts for using the exact same logic I just demonstrated to warn about dragnet surveillance programs. Watch: the USG has the disposition to spy on its citizens and the capability to do so without fear of consequences, therefor it is almost certainly happening. You can see that argument commonly popping up all over the 90s cypherpunks mailing list.

Now, try to apply that same reasoning to your allegation without looking silly. Yes, the USG has secretly run certain aspects of a public biowarfare program - and when it came to light they paid. Boom, they couldn't keep it secret and they couldn't escape the consequences (lots of very damaging legal cases and hearings). Finally, do they have an incentive? No - as I said, it makes no sense for them to reduce the cost of yet another world ending weapon. Now you could point to Russia getting caught with massive stockpiles of Anthrax after they claimed to end the program... but their nuclear program's credibility isn't comparable - they've always demonstrated clear signs of insecurity about it. That isn't the case for the USG.