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Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

nytimes.com

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Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#661

Post by nullc »

bbanyc wrote: post #659
nullc wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island? Yet the her deposition does not actually make that claim, but rather that she was directed to approach Minsky for sex. A third party witness reports that that he turned her down and was apparently complaining about the incident. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ If you were not aware of these th…

Why should we believe Benford? How do we know there weren't other incidents? Given Minsky's well-established long-running ties to Epstein, I don't think we can afford not to believe the allegations against him. I find it especially painful because I was once a student in one of his courses, it was a great experience and I didn't suspect a thing about him - but you never know. Never meet your heroes. Never have heroes…

> Why should we believe Benford?

You could start with because the claim Minsky went along with it was never offered by the accuser in the first place!

There is something to debate about how far you should believe accusations without investigation or evidence ... but this isn't that, this is jumping to hysterical ends without even an accusation being made, assuming the worst about someone whom-- as far as I know-- no one had even the slightest concern about, even in the face of contradicting evidence. It's an area that deserves more investigation and inquiry, but as far as I can tell-- that's it.

I don't know how to see that as anything but a straight up witchhunt where no one targeted could ever be found innocent.

My above comment is now, I think, my highest upvoted HN comment ever, even though it is a striking contrast to most of the posts in this thread. I suspect a lot of people are afraid of challenging the witchhunt.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#662

Post by dennisgorelik »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #629
dennisgorelik wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, "why do you use 'sex trafficking' term?" is an important question. Yes: if under "sex trafficking" we understand [consensual] "prostitution", then in some states it is OK. But even if "sex trafficking" is not ok -- there are various degrees of "not ok". That is why it is important to use clear definitions in a discussion. Unclear "sex trafficking" term converts discussion from rational to irrational, when everyo…

I don’t know of any definition of “sex trafficking” in which it’s consensual. But just so we’re clear, here’s the relevant part of the quote: > We literally had a conversation about how, on the off chance that they’re not there by choice, we could maybe help them.

Do you have an information that sex that these girls had with Epstein or with his friends or with his clients - was not consensual?

The stories that these girls told suggest that they were free to leave.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#663

Post by bbanyc »

anon2947 wrote: post #472
pryce wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Xeni Jardin's claim below is true, Joi Ito needs to resign from more than just MIT: "I told the @nytimes everything. So did whistleblowers I was in touch with inside @MIT and @Edge. They printed none of the most damning truths. @joi is on the board of the NYT. THANK GOD FOR @RonanFarrow" EDIT: NYTimes is now indicating that Ito has resigned from NYT Co board, effective immediately [2]. [1] https://twitter.com/xeni…

I read a few more of Xeni's tweets, and wanted to get HN's honest opinion on them. It seems (to me) like a lot of people on Twitter (and HN?) are over-reacting. For example, Xeni's pinned tweet references this other tweet ( https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1165266579560521728 ), which implies that anybody who was ever at a dinner with Epstein should be considered complicit in Epstein's crimes. Take this quote, for exa…

The world is a much more fucked-up place than any of us can imagine. I believe Xeni Jardin, completely.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#664

Post by dennisgorelik »

onemoresoop wrote: post #626
dennisgorelik wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "sex trafficked" mean? Is it prostitution? Sexual slavery? Why do you use such an unclear term in a discussion?

To keep it short it just means pimping, which is illegal

1) Is it illegal to receive donations from pimps?

2) Is "forced suicide" a fair punishment for pimps?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#665

Post by darawk »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #579
darawk wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it unfair? Have you ever been put in a position at work where it even crossed your mind that associates of a guest your boss invited might be sex trafficked? Have you even heard of that happening until now? We are talking about a truly extraordinary situation; can we not agree that if you have to even consider the question, something is very wrong? Of course i've heard of that happening. People speculate all…

> Of course i've heard of that happening. People speculate all the time that older men out with younger, attractive women are being "trafficked" in the sense meant here. That is not the question. Has your boss at your tech job ever invited an important guest to your workplace , who brought associates whom you reasonably thought might be there against their will? > The entire point under discussion however turns on th…

> That is not the question. Has your boss at your tech job ever invited an important guest to your workplace, who brought associates whom you reasonably thought might be there against their will?

No, and neither did Epstein. They had no reasonable basis to assume these women were there against their will.

> No, the discussion is about whether Ito should have known at the time to not work with Epstein. tptacek is also arguing that he should have left once Epstein’s involvement with Media Lab was first discovered, since he had to know the depth of the story.

I think you just reiterated my point. Yes, the question is whether, at the time Ito should have known not to work with Epstein. Whether the publicly available information at the time was sufficient to justify his exile from MIT.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#666

Post by bbanyc »

nullc wrote: post #661
bbanyc wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we believe Benford? How do we know there weren't other incidents? Given Minsky's well-established long-running ties to Epstein, I don't think we can afford not to believe the allegations against him. I find it especially painful because I was once a student in one of his courses, it was a great experience and I didn't suspect a thing about him - but you never know. Never meet your heroes. Never have heroes…

> Why should we believe Benford? You could start with because the claim Minsky went along with it was never offered by the accuser in the first place! There is something to debate about how far you should believe accusations without investigation or evidence ... but this isn't that, this is jumping to hysterical ends without even an accusation being made, assuming the worst about someone whom-- as far as I know-- no…

Even if everything Benford said is true and there were no other incidents, Minsky still knew that Epstein was pimping young girls out at his conferences and kept taking Epstein's money and attending the conferences for years afterward. That's awfully damning.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#667

Post by jakelazaroff »

darawk wrote: post #665
jakelazaroff wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course i've heard of that happening. People speculate all the time that older men out with younger, attractive women are being "trafficked" in the sense meant here. That is not the question. Has your boss at your tech job ever invited an important guest to your workplace , who brought associates whom you reasonably thought might be there against their will? > The entire point under discussion however turns on th…

> That is not the question. Has your boss at your tech job ever invited an important guest to your workplace, who brought associates whom you reasonably thought might be there against their will? No, and neither did Epstein. They had no reasonable basis to assume these women were there against their will. > No, the discussion is about whether Ito should have known at the time to not work with Epstein. tptacek is also…

If we can’t agree that it’s suspicious for a pedophile known for prostituting young girls from Eastern Europe to then show up with two young girls from Eastern Europe, I think we’re done here.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#668

Post by Sadkov »

Why do people make such a hypocritically huge fuzz out of some pimp, like Epstein? Look at poor neighborhoods - there are literally millions pimps prostituting millions of women in the world. I doubt any of you want to pay for their education, so they could stop prostituting and do useful jobs, and I doubt any of these prostitutes want to work at a sweatshop or a factory, or even in office, doing heavy and unhealthy work in disciplined environment.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#669

Post by mcguire »

asveikau wrote: post #22
CrazyStat wrote: post #4

This seemed inevitable after the New Yorker article yesterday detailing how Ito and his team hid Epstein's involvement from the university, which had disqualified Epstein as a donor. Taking money from a dirty source is one thing; hiding it from the university because they've blacklisted that person in particular is about as unforgivable a crime as you'll find in academia

I remember similar stories about people who took money from Harvey Weinstein, for example there was an AIDS nonprofit he gave millions to. It all highlights the difficult job facing people tasked with taking money from donors in this way. They won't always have 20/20 hindsight. They may learn about sketchiness after they already took the money. They may be so blinded by what they see as generosity and good will that…

MIT blacklisted him after his conviction in 2008. And Ito knew him well.

Your hypothetical example is pretty thoroughly unrelated to the case here.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#670

Post by prepend »

dragonwriter wrote: post #618
prepend wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don’t see that those are the only roles for women. But in a situation there it’s a 70 year old man/woman with a 25 year old who is not their spouse, I think those are the most likely options. The game also includes being able to rule out other relationship types just based on observation. It’s also worth noting that these aren’t absolute characterizations but probabilistic. In no part of the game am I mak…

> But in a situation there it’s a 70 year old man/woman with a 25 year old who is not their spouse, I think those are the most likely options. Sure you do, and while it is not particularly plausible that those would be the most probable—even from the categories of “family members” and “people doing their job by being there”—it is a perfect example of the Virgin-Whore mindset.

The game is daughter or prostitute so “family members” is half the game. Determining whether they are platonic, non-family acquaintances is part of the fun.
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