Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties • Hacker News Board

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#511

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 6:52 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #32

IvyMike wrote: post #13

In the other thread, people were saying "I'd take Epstein's dirty money and do good with it." But the problem is that doing so normalizes the behavior. Everybody who has doubts about working with the creep looks around the room, and when they don't see anyone else objecting, ends up thinking "I guess we're all ok with this behavior" and goes along to get along.

> Everybody who has doubts about working with the creep looks around the room, and when they don't see anyone else objecting, ends up thinking "I guess we're all ok with this behavior" and gets along to go along. Let's be honest - a lot of people in the tech community and related subcultures (particularly genre fandoms) are either ok with, or are ambivalent towards, this behavior, or have a lack of empathy which lead…

> Let's be honest - a lot of people in the tech community and related subcultures (particularly genre fandoms) are either ok with, or are ambivalent towards, this behavior, or have a lack of empathy which leads them to view things in purely game-theoretical terms.

The number of YC based start-ups that took dirty money is rather large. You may be on to something there.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/yuri-milner-faceboo...

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#512

Post by nullc » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

cjbprime wrote: post #501

anon2947 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a few more of Xeni's tweets, and wanted to get HN's honest opinion on them. It seems (to me) like a lot of people on Twitter (and HN?) are over-reacting. For example, Xeni's pinned tweet references this other tweet ( https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1165266579560521728 ), which implies that anybody who was ever at a dinner with Epstein should be considered complicit in Epstein's crimes. Take this quote, for exa…

> Steven Pinker, Marvin Minsky It just sounds like you haven't been paying attention at all. Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island? https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef... Are you aware that Pinker has flown on the "Lolita Express" and helped with Epstein's legal defense, a legal defense that led to him avoiding a pri…

> Are you aware that a woman has claimed that she was forced to have sex with Marvin Minsky by Epstein on his island?

Yet the her deposition does not actually make that claim, but rather that she was directed to approach Minsky for sex. A third party witness reports that that he turned her down and was apparently complaining about the incident. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/

If you were not aware of these things, please engage in some honest introspection regarding how you ended up decrying attempts to constrain overreaction-- and potentially defaming an innocent person who isn't around to defend themself-- and allow a calm deliberative process to search for actual justice.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#513

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:02 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #499

darawk wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Ito's position at MIT was so compromised that, for the good of the organization, he needed to quit. He had an obligation to do so; MIT didn't owe him his role, but rather he had joined to serve MIT. He was doing so no longer. Of course MIT has the right to fire him. I don't really understand what you're trying to argue. The question is whether they should have fired him, which in my view is entirely determined by…

> I think that's a very unfair framing of the issue. He invited Epstein over. Epstein brought his 'assistants'. It's still a question mark whether they were even prostitutes, let alone prostitutes operating in any sort of non-consensual capacity. What we have here is simply that someone at MIT speculated whether they were being trafficked. There is no evidence at all that their presence was anything other than consen…

What does "sex trafficked" mean?

Is it prostitution? Sexual slavery?

Why do you use such an unclear term in a discussion?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#514

Post by paggle » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

p0llard wrote: post #108

Internal email this afternoon from President Reif: To the members of the MIT community, Last night, The New Yorker published an article that contains deeply disturbing allegations about the engagement between individuals at the Media Lab and Jeffrey Epstein. Because the accusations in the story are extremely serious, they demand an immediate, thorough and independent investigation. This morning, I asked MIT’s General…

Interesting to see the choice of the word “prominent law firm” rather than “excellent” or similar... an appeal to reputation rather than ability. Essentially, what Reif aims to do is what Epstein did... salvage his tattered reputation by affiliation with a more prestigious, untainted one.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#515

Post by yawaramin » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #487

tptacek wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think two things: * Ito's position at MIT was so compromised that, for the good of the organization, he needed to quit. He had an obligation to do so; MIT didn't owe him his role, but rather he had joined to serve MIT. He was doing so no longer. * One reason he was so compromised, in my estimation of the available information, is that he repeatedly did something egregiously wrong. Once again: I've never even heard…

> * Ito's position at MIT was so compromised that, for the good of the organization, he needed to quit. He had an obligation to do so; MIT didn't owe him his role, but rather he had joined to serve MIT. He was doing so no longer. Of course MIT has the right to fire him. I don't really understand what you're trying to argue. The question is whether they should have fired him, which in my view is entirely determined by…

> The question is whether they should have fired him, which in my view is entirely determined by the badness of his actions.

Are you arguing that he did nothing wrong? In that case why did he hide his actions from MIT, after it had explicitly blacklisted Epstein as a donor?

> someone at MIT speculated ... There is no evidence at all that their presence was anything other than consensual.

Maybe so, but they had good reason to. Epstein by that point had already been convicted on the sex offender charge. And then he was going around accompanied by young European women, and there's nothing suspicious about that? Come on.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#516

Post by briantakita » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

The network associated with Jeffrey Epstein & Ghislaine Maxwell (daughter of Mossad Agent Robert Maxwell) runs deep in the tech industry. Also note that Aaron Swartz was involved with the MIT Media Labs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olGSOydtOgY

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#517

Post by cattlefarmer » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:26 AM UTC

> This is well-known now.

Please avoid this.

Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea who Epstein is except that he's some rich, white guy that got caught up in some kind of sex scandal, was arrested and is now dead. I'm not belittling his acts nor ignoring his accusers, I'm saying that I did not know. Now let me explain why.

Over the past couple of years, there have been non-stop stories of one powerful white man after another being revealed doing heinous sexual things to women. The reports are non-stop and it has come to the point that I have tuned them out. A good number of us here are in the tech industry, we're busy enough as it is. Whatever free time we have is focused on things that are more immediate. A large number of people in my immediate bubble have no idea who Epstein is. I'm not even sure if his first name is Jeff or James, except that it starts with J.

I'm likely not the only one.

So according to the HN guidelines, please assume good faith when people ask why.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#518

Post by creato » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:34 AM UTC

anon2947 wrote: post #472

pryce wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Xeni Jardin's claim below is true, Joi Ito needs to resign from more than just MIT: "I told the @nytimes everything. So did whistleblowers I was in touch with inside @MIT and @Edge. They printed none of the most damning truths. @joi is on the board of the NYT. THANK GOD FOR @RonanFarrow" EDIT: NYTimes is now indicating that Ito has resigned from NYT Co board, effective immediately [2]. [1] https://twitter.com/xeni…

I read a few more of Xeni's tweets, and wanted to get HN's honest opinion on them. It seems (to me) like a lot of people on Twitter (and HN?) are over-reacting. For example, Xeni's pinned tweet references this other tweet ( https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1165266579560521728 ), which implies that anybody who was ever at a dinner with Epstein should be considered complicit in Epstein's crimes. Take this quote, for exa…

> This seems to imply that anybody at this dinner (that Epstein) was complicit.

I was reading it the same way, until I got to this:

> I attended some of them [the same dinners] and I can confirm!

It seems like this person is tarring people for doing not more than she herself did.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#519

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:44 AM UTC

currymj wrote: post #237

the HN comments on all the recent Epstein stories have been very strange. I have to assume at least some of the more contrarian views are coming from people who haven't been following the full story in the US news, and so don't quite grasp the nature of the allegations. The case is far from just "some rich guy turned out to be an abuser". If you can't understand why the reaction is so strong against those who maintai…

[deleted]

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#520

Post by arcticfox » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 7:45 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #491

smsm42 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYT, which then buried the story. /.../ Many papers and media outlets killed Epstein stories. So, I imagine many editors from NYT and many other papers has resigned from their jobs and their memberships in whatever professional organizations, boards, etc. they have been on, because of that? Or the press is not supposed to be held to ethical standard because... well, because they are The Press, so they are above scr…

The NYT has very prominently been in ethical collapse mode for several years now. This is just another in a line of a dozen or so scandals surrounding their credibility, or rather, their no longer existent credibility. They're the biggest joke in mainstream news in the US right now and that's not an easy thing to accomplish while Fox News still exists. There is zero chance editors and journalists at the NYT resign ov…

Sources? I haven't heard of any of these scandals. And even this story could simply be the NYT failing to corroborate the more salacious accusations with more than one source yet, therefore not running them.