Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#661

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #319

iamaelephant wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would this be doable for Tesla but not every other car manufacturer?

No baggage, aggressive leadership, better talent.

Potential for lower cost as well, the part count of an electric car is lower than a petrol car. (no combustion engine, no gears, and I'm sure they can simplify the electronics as well due to not having as much legacy baggage as other car manufacturers).

However, to achieve that they still need to reduce the cost of batteries by at least half. Reducing battery price has always been one of their goals though, hence the megafactory.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#662

Post by gonehome » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:07 PM UTC

navigatesol wrote: post #501

gonehome wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been predicting failure for Tesla since the beginning. At each stage saying they’d fail and not be able to execute. Every time so far they’ve been wrong. I like my model 3 a lot so I’d recommend one - I don’t think the people speculating on Tesla are particularly good at it.

> People have been predicting failure for Tesla since the beginning. This is such a bizarre argument. Things don't fall apart overnight, until they do. Are you a software engineer? "People have been predicting our app will collapse under the burden of technical debt since the beginning. Hasn't happened yet!"

To clarify they’ve said each step was impossible and that Musk was basically a fraud or a liar and each step has been executed so far.

I place the people predicting failure with those predicting a stock market crash - given a long enough time horizon you’ll eventually be right, but otherwise it seems to have mostly been nonsense so far. I suspect people outside Tesla are either just bad at predicting their ability to execute or have other reasons to want them to fail.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by dd36 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:12 PM UTC

Gudoguru wrote: post #445

dd36 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSLA is the exact same position as AMZN a decade ago. They don’t need to make profits. They need to invest in assets and scale, which is exactly what they’re doing.

Except AMZN was cash positive and their lack of profitability was due to the fact that they were investing money they were generating from sales. TSLA on the other hand have to raise money from the market to fund their operations, let alone invest in assets and scale. The two companies are not in the exact same position

Amazon used and still uses debt...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by dd36 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #443

dd36 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSLA is the exact same position as AMZN a decade ago. They don’t need to make profits. They need to invest in assets and scale, which is exactly what they’re doing.

Amazon basically never lost money (or at least not in a material way). That's different.

It's not different. Not even a little bit. TSLA has sold equity and debt to pay for assets to scale. It does not lose money on its sales. AMZN sold equity and debt to pay for assets to scale.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by leesec » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:22 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #634

_ea1k wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't agree with that on the model 3. The model 3 is basically BM 3 series money, and there is nothing particularly phenomenal about the BMW 3 series from a luxury standpoint.

Are you talking about the elusive $35,000 model 3s? Because most Teslas sell for 5-series and E-class prices.

IDK my SR+ with autopilot was 39,500, before a 3750 tax incentive.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by matthewdgreen » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #634

_ea1k wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't agree with that on the model 3. The model 3 is basically BM 3 series money, and there is nothing particularly phenomenal about the BMW 3 series from a luxury standpoint.

Are you talking about the elusive $35,000 model 3s? Because most Teslas sell for 5-series and E-class prices.

I just priced out a BMW 330i (all wheel drive), which starts at $42,250. The Tesla M3 Long Range (dual motor) starts at $49,500. However, the BMW base price does not include "luxury trim" (i.e., chrome highlights), "convenience package" (basically lumbar support and keyless entry plus app access), "driver assistance", or "parking assistance". All of these seem to be standard in the M3 LR. Once you add those packages, the 330i pops over $51k. If anything, it looks like Tesla has set their prices to compete directly against the 3 series line. (These prices don't include tax subsidies or destination charges, etc.)

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by pbreit » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

hyperbovine wrote: post #416

pbreit wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why would you buy a Tesla when you can buy a Hyundai Kona for a lot less?" Sorry, but this is just a completely dumb question/statement. People buy 5x the number of Teslas than Konas because they Teslas are much, much more delightful.

> People buy 5x the number of Teslas than Konas because they Teslas are much, much more delightful. Sorry, but this is just a completely dumb statement. The reason Tesla sales are higher is partly because Hyundai literally cannot meet the demand for this car ( https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/11/hyundai-reassures-... ). Economics is a real phenomenon, and way more people would rather have basic transportation +…

It does seem there is decent demand for Kona EV.

Perhaps you were not aware of Tesla's Model 3 which is the same price as a Kona EV and much, much nicer. And not battery constrained.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by pbreit » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #508

pbreit wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing to deny something that exists is actually beyond calling it impossible! If you've got some spare time, go read some third party research on how cameras might actually be better. Lidar superiority is a myth. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.07179.pdf

That paper says nothing of the sort. Did you even read it ? The numbers actually show pseudo-LiDAR being worse in general and significantly worse at longer distances.

I read it. Did you?

"it is plausible that image-based 3D object detection for autonomous vehicle will become a reality in the near future."

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by vonmoltke » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:28 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #350

golfer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has about $9B in debt. They are not an attractive takeover candidate. They've never turned an annual profit.

VW Group’s recent Audi e-tron has to 30-40% lower range than a Tesla 3 (~200 miles vs ~325 miles) and as such I would totally see them putting forward the money to buy Tesla in order to bridge this big technological gap.

The first e-tron model to go into production is a 5-door SUV equivalent to the Model X. Why are you comparing it to the Model 3?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by dmix » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 3:31 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #648

bluedino wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a car, to the salesman. If I went in and looked for a Chevrolet Equinox and the dealer didn't have anyt, they'd try to sell me another model. Just like if you went to Best Buy looking for a certain TV, they'll just try to sell you the one on the shelf

I've had on multiple occasions gone into a dealership and had them tell me that they have the car i'm asking about, but that I don't want that car, and that I want this other car instead. I went into nissan to look at the Juke a while back, the asshole wouldn't even let me look at it until I literally started leaving. He just kept pressing the Rogue saying that I'd like it a lot more... Then when he finally took me t…

This is why online car shopping needs to be a thing. I experienced the exact same thing. I'm a highly informed customer who knew every car I wanted to see but almost every sales guy ignored that fact, besides at a Honda location. Which isn't surprising that I ended up with a Honda.

I would have bought it online if I could and it's very possible I wouldn't have ended up with a Honda, that has to play a role in each company's auto sales.