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CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

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Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#651
post #294
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related point that I've been making privately for at least ten years to anyone that would listen, is that we've had Superhuman Intelligence for at least hundreds, if not thousands, of years in the form of corporations and institutions. No single human could design a rocket to go to the moon or keep all Wallmart stores supplied on a daily basis. Moreover when something like the CEO or US president changes, the polic…

collective intelligence is not a superhuman intelligence. Markets solves the resource allocation problem, but it doesn't and realistically cannot be called intelligent (even tho it's been called wisdom of the crowds), in the same way that darwinian natural selection cannot be called intelligent design.

I agree with you on the markets but not on institutions and organisations.

Organisations pursue goals with agency and there is even Darwinian competition between them in many cases.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#652
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it has 4 legs, so it must be a cat.

(Corroboration, not deduction: "has four legs, so it is more probably a cat". That is vs falsification: "short, hence not all managers are tall". Which does not work anyway going from the logical context to the stochastic context, because it becomes "the exception that confirms the rule". I trust you knew, but.)

lol, more like a warped version of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

or, more probably I have used a fallacy to analogize the wrong fallacy :)

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#653
post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Understand human nature, incentives, and complex systems like markets and how they produce incentives. We do. "Class war" is just the succinct phrasing for "people who earn money through capital returns have vastly different incentives than people who earn money from their labor, and they also have the means to turn those interests into political leverage".

Except that when you comparison shop, you are helping construct those incentives. When you sell your labor you want it to cost as much as possible. When you buy the results of others labor you want them to be as cheap as possible. The system is circles, cycles, loops, two sided trades. It’s not one group of people unilaterally plotting things. When someone does try to do that they usually fail unless their plot happe…

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Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be able to disappear for a year But I do my job properly and get in trouble when I ask for a week off

If a ceo can disappear for months and still return into a company that isn't on fire,it means they have a functional company. It means there are processes and people in right places to run things in a continuous manner. This isn't as common as people might think. I've seen many companies where people can't survive for a few days without ceo because the position is tied to a million things( often unnecessarily). There…

Right, if a janitor can leave the hallways for a week and they're still clean on his return we should let him go

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed" Sure they can - especially when conferences are designed to have an API. And when more companies are run by an AI, they will absolutely have secret meetings to discuss a merger.

> Sure they can - especially when conferences are designed to have an API. This sounds about as realistic as all of the crypto and blockchain people talking about distributed governance and such. The API part and agents pulling data is fine, I doubt they'd be running a business though, since something tells me that sort of thing is gatekept way more even from other people. For a cool fictional portrayal of AI busines…

To me it's sounds 1000x more likely than AI that can write complex software. I guess it's not shocking that people fall for all the narrow scoped demos. They fell for the trap that believing software is easy when it's the hardest thing an intelligence can do.

Show me syntax I'm impressed, show me how you manage your state and invariants and I'm horrified.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#656
post #294
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related point that I've been making privately for at least ten years to anyone that would listen, is that we've had Superhuman Intelligence for at least hundreds, if not thousands, of years in the form of corporations and institutions. No single human could design a rocket to go to the moon or keep all Wallmart stores supplied on a daily basis. Moreover when something like the CEO or US president changes, the polic…

collective intelligence is not a superhuman intelligence. Markets solves the resource allocation problem, but it doesn't and realistically cannot be called intelligent (even tho it's been called wisdom of the crowds), in the same way that darwinian natural selection cannot be called intelligent design.

> Markets solve the resource allocation problem

Not really. If they did, markets would be more stable. Look at the prices of commodities such as copper. Prices swing up and own by as much as 3x, despite both supply and demand not changing much. That's the problem. If supply and demand have a lot of inertia, and thus lag, the feedback loop becomes unstable. This is basic control theory. Hedging with derivatives was supposed to add stability, but doesn't work very well for that purpose.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still not getting it. "Entity", "survival", these are still arbitrary or circularly defined terms. You decided what an entity is (i.e where one thing ends and a different thing begins) and what the essence which "survives" is (i.e. why it's a big deal whether there's a different chunk of nucleic acids similar but not identical to my own floating around 200 years from now). These ideas are not wrong, but they a…

> And nature doesn't come with purposes, it's all something we impose on it. That is the presumption others are calling you out for. Things very clearly act appear to act with purpose, they just clearly don't provide it for themselves . You are presuming one solution to the problem (that appearance does not hold in reality), but there is another one.

A storm can appear to act with purpose too, or a planet orbiting a star, yet I doubt you assign it agency. It's fundamentally your choice to assign something agency or not, whether you are right or wrong to do so, is not an empirical question. It is a teleological one. "Call me out" all you want, this is very basic.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#658
post #633
post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, yeah. Classification in general is a subjective, value-laden activity. At the most granular resolution, everything is fundamentally sui generis -- putting things into classes requires making subjective judgments about what qualities and characteristics you're going to ignore in order to focus on the ones you care about. Put simply, when you come up with a class/category taxonomy, you're drawing your own bo…

So you’re basically against the concept of classes and the act of classification . An interesting position to take in a hacker community but ok :) However you can’t simply dismiss a whole literature of class struggle by simply rejecting the notion of class fundamentally. Sure, every human being is unique and individual . But if you take a few million of them, patterns arise. Marketing people know and abuse this. Also…

> So you’re basically against the concept of classes and the act of classification.

No idea where you got that from. I think I was fairly clear in explaining that the concept of classes and the act of classification are value-laden and subjective things, that are applied for the sake of their utility in pursuing equally value-laden purposes. Very much within the "all models are wrong; some models are useful" understanding.

The point is that classes and classification are analytical tools we use for pursuing our own purposes within the world, not sources of empirical information about the world.

> However you can’t simply dismiss a whole literature of class struggle by simply rejecting the notion of class fundamentally.

How do you figure? Surely rejecting a fundamental axiom on which an entire ideological system is based would entail dismissing all subsequent literature predicated on that axiom. If you rejected the premise that the position of celestial objects determined the outcomes of events in human society, would you not dismiss the entire field of astrology on that basis?

> Sure, every human being is unique and individual. But if you take a few million of them, patterns arise. Marketing people know and abuse this.

And they make good use of it in trying to sell narrowly-tailored markets to narrowly-tailored market segments. If they tried to use it as a way of making normative judgments applicable to society as a whole, they'd be neck-deep in error to the same extent as the "class struggle" folks.

> If you actually look at what people are doing, you can observe similar patterns too.

If you actually look at what people are doing, you will almost invariably witness them pursuing their own particular individual interests according to their own particular values and assumptions, and not making their decisions in line with someone else's theoretical constructs.

> Yes some groups fail to act for their best interests because they are oppressed.

Groups do not act at all: first, categories and groups are two different things; second, only individuals act, often in relation to other individuals, and the categorization of those individuals together is itself a post-hoc analysis.

People generally do act in pursuit of their best interests: even if people are being oppressed, oppression itself is an external phenomenon -- it may constrain the range of feasible choices available to an individual, but it cannot usurp the agency of individuals in making choice between the options that remain available.

Naturally, these "acting against their own interests" claims are made by external observers looking at people actually making choices from whatever options are available, and concluding that of those available choices, they chose the one less compatible with their own interests.

In almost every such case, the observer drawing that conclusion has projected their own notion of what the other party's interest ought to be onto them, rather than attempted to ascertain what their interests actually are. No one is actually obligated to determine their own interests in compliance with someone else's taxonomies or values hierarchies -- everyone can and does do so according to their own.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I trust any self-reported numbers on this kind of stuff. 10 - 20 days per year (but not evenly distributed) is a common figure I see thrown around: https://www.nedcapital.co.uk/how-much-time-does-a-non-execut...

10-20 days a year is in the same ballpark and is still a lot. I quoted 6 work weeks (40 hours per day at 5 days per week) which is 30 days a year, not that much higher than your stated 10-20 days. The article I linked specifically mentioned that private company boards demand less time than public company boards, around 200 hours, roughly 25 work days. Any of these figures is pretty close to my entire yearly PTO alloc…

The reasons are money and power/influence. But I take your point.
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