Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 1001 posts

Re: DeepSeek v4

#651

Post by wookmaster »

melenaboija wrote: post #638
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

The funniest thing is how Americans have been fooled with this stuff. This version of AI is mostly taking a public paper from 2017, investing in GPUs, and feeding it as much data as possible. So with a few computer scientists, no respect for intellectual property, and tons of money to burn, you have all the ingredients to create this technology. Sam Altman and friends did it, as did the Chinese. The difference is tha…

The response from US corporations has been banning Chinese models claiming they’re spying or something.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#652

Post by wookmaster »

TrackerFF wrote: post #333
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

Let's see how long it takes before the big US AI companies start lobbying to outright ban use of Chinese AI, even the open source / local models. For "national security" reasons, of course.

This is already happening. My company just went through this

Re: DeepSeek v4

#653

Post by rfrey »

Ladioss wrote: post #376
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet.

And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#654

Post by satvikpendem »

vessenes wrote: post #519
satvikpendem wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't keep up. Much like with news, you'll know when you need to know, because someone else will tell you first.

This is only good advice if you don’t have the need to understand what’s happening on the edge of the frontier. If you do, then you’ll lose on compounding the knowledge from staying engaged with the major developments.

Not all developments are equal. Many are experimental branches of testing things out that usually get merged back into the core, so to speak. For example, I knew someone who was full into building their own harness and implementing the Ralph loop and various other things, spending a lot of time on it and now, guess what? All of that is in Claude Code or another harness and I didn't have to spend any amount of time on it because ultimately they're implementation details.

It's like ricing your Linux distro, sure it's fun to spend that time but don't make the mistake of thinking it's productive, it's just another form of procrastination (or perhaps a hobby to put it more charitably).

Re: DeepSeek v4

#656

Post by leodavi »

DennisP wrote: post #640

No CUDA, 1.6T parameters but with 49B active...does that mean you can run it efficiently on a 64GB macbook?

Probably not. The active parameter set may change from token to token, based on my understanding of MoE, so you'd be streaming (at the worst case, unlikely for a real scenario but frames the problem) 49B parameters from SSD for every output token...

Re: DeepSeek v4

#657

Post by kolinko »

rfrey wrote: post #653
Ladioss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet. And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

Also, many of us have lived in countries actually freed thanks to the west’s (mustly us) intervention, and we felt the support during the Russian occupation pre 1989

Re: DeepSeek v4

#658

Post by singularity2001 »

rfrey wrote: post #653
Ladioss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet. And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

The US has massacred millions of people of other countries, is that better?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#659

Post by segmondy »

DennisP wrote: post #640

No CUDA, 1.6T parameters but with 49B active...does that mean you can run it efficiently on a 64GB macbook?

no, you need as much ram as the total model. But it means you can load the most important tensors in a smaller GPU. So you can run it on a PC with say 2 32gb rtx 5090 and 1tb+ of system ram.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#660

Post by vibe42 »

aurareturn wrote: post #406
alpineman wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't see how NVIDA justifies its valuation/forward P/E ratio with these developments and on-device also becoming viable for 98% of people's needs when it comes to AI

On-device is incredibly far away from being viable. A $20 ChatGPT subscription beats the hell out of the 8B model that a $1,000 computer can run. Nvidia's forward PE ratio is only 20 for 2026. That's much lower than companies like Walmart and Costco. It's also growing nearly 100% YoY and has a $1 trillion backlog. I think Nvidia is cheap.

I run both MoE and dense models on laptops.

One set of models run on 8GB VRAM / 16GB RAM and another set runs on 24GB VRAM / 64GB RAM. Both are very useful for easy and easy-to-moderate complex code, respectively.

The latest open, small models are incredibly useful even at smaller sizes when configured properly (quant size, sampling params, careful use of context etc).

Post reply on HN