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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

theregister.com

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#651

Post by danielmarkbruce »

pixelpoet wrote: post #459
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. Nothing would have come of it. Ehe EU would have been upset for 3-6 months, then it would have got onboard with the idea that Greenland is now a US territory and that's that. France has a too good of a cuisine to be invaded. I think Germany would be next, they are running their mouth more than they should and they suck at food. Unless the mid-terms change the political majority in the US, the Democrats can…

This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. Add in democrats "wining" and I'm pretty sure this post belongs on a Confederate cooking blog rather than HN.

Except that he might be right... if you think there is no chance he's right, you aren't paying attention. These are strange times.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#652

Post by bgnn »

Gimpei wrote: post #445

Isn’t the more fundamental question why Europe has not been as successful as the US or China in building a native tech industry despite having a huge market? What are the barriers to creating startups and how can you lower them and preserve the enviable European social model? Solve that and you’ll solve the problem of a native cloud.

Let me start with saying I'm all for the European social model, which is sadly regressing. However, this model/system is often a hurdle for start-ups, or any small company for that matter. The rules are designed to regulate big companies also apply to start-ups, adding up a bug overhead in the initial years. I think agriculture specifically is outside most of these regulations, because European countries love their agriculture, i.e. rural votes coming from the farmers.

Talent pool in EU is large but not concentrated like in US. Combine this with every EU country having different rules, and not being able to hire across EU without incirporating in every country you want to hire, it's also challenging to access to the large talent pool.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#653

Post by hilbert42 »

bornfreddy wrote: post #424
HPsquared wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is always going to be "maybe", but hopefully enough of a maybe to deter hostile actions. That puts everything in an uncomfortable state of uncertainty.

Better uncomfortable state of uncertainty than comfortable state of war. Nuclear or conventional.

"…comfortable state of war."

No war is "comfortable", it's a distaster for all involved participants—even the victors.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#654

Post by hilbert42 »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #624
vasac wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we want to fight this war on someone else's soil or on ours? Russia thought so too.

What do you mean? There was never any question of attacking Russia and fighting any war on their soil. Nobody in their right mind would attack a country with the 2nd largest army and nuclear weapons. The war in Ukraine definitely made this army still very weak, but, except Ukraine defending itself, I don't see anyone rushing to attack Russia anytime soon. It makes no sense now and made no sense before they invaded Uk…

The best way to 'attack' Russia is to undermine its economic and political systems then let unrest amongst its citizenry do the dirty work. 1917 showed Russia's proletariat was very effective at achieving regime change.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#655

Post by hilbert42 »

tokai wrote: post #525
littlestymaar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like containing Russia without having to rely on the whims of another country's politics That's true, but at the same time it was probably already the case before invasion of Ukraine, and it is definitely the case now. The main issue is political fragmentation: would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? But if the answer is true (as obl…

>would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? Yes very much.

Right. Aggression can only be tolerated up to a point before it triggers a response. Remember, on 1 September 1939 the Nazis invaded Poland and two days later both the UK and France declared war on Germany.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#656

Post by hilbert42 »

michaelt wrote: post #288
nixpulvis wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. We used to live in a world converging toward maximal international trade, when in fact it was exploiting underdeveloped nations. As we progress globally, and as the development gap shrinks, we have noticed power dynamics which weren't well guarded against in the old way. So now what? How do w…

> Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. If anything, I'd say for other countries it's more urgent. If China embargoes deliveries of light bulbs to Europe, all the light bulbs already in place keep working. The pain would grow over time - giving a grace period, to ramp up local production. If America embargoes AWS, Google, Apple a…

In case of war AWS, Google, Apple and Microsoft and others would be immediately directed by government to adopt its war strategy—like it or not—just as US manufacturing was forced to retool for war production during WWII.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#657

Post by port11 »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

What are Scaleway and OVH missing? Many of their products are even AWS compatible.

I hosted all our stuff in Europe at the last startup. The 2 providers above were much cheaper than our GCP stuff one the free credits ran out. It’ll have been the 4th place I’ve worked where Big Cloud wasn’t the default.

Other decent office suites exist, not to mention not all documents need to be cloud-based.

I find your statement lacks context, otherwise it doesn’t seem rooted in reality.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#658

Post by hbogert »

dijit wrote: post #543
hbogert wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's wrong with using european stuff? (ARM, ASML) :P

Isn’t ARM owned by Softbank? (Japanese)

totally missed this, yep major stake is by Softbank. We europeans like to talk about sovereignty but we sell our stuff pretty easily :D

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#659

Post by hilbert42 »

bborud wrote: post #409
nixpulvis wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that the development gap is what lead to the current situation, not that it's just cheap labor that makes Chinese stuff cheap. My point about maintaining higher economic efficiency is actually the same point you're making. How can the globe (not just the west vs the east) learn from the past and build for the future. We live in a magical world with translation services available to billions of people, ho…

I think Congress is actually the biggest obstacle to efficient manufacturing in the US. It is a body where the primary motivation of representatives centers around what they can get for their constituents, not what makes sense nationally. So any government spending (eg procurement) will actually tend to drive fragmentation as representatives fight for their states. Take for instance the space sector. It is fragmented…

"It is fragmented by design. By Congress.…"

That's only in peacetime. During WWII the Government directed US industry to gear up for war production and the transformation was not only remarkably swift but also the largest retooling effort in history.

In these fraught times it's worth revisiting that history to remind ourselves of what's actually possible. By today's standards, the US's industrial response to war was truly remarkable.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#660

Post by moltar »

vga42 wrote: post #549
moltar wrote: post #507

Good luck rebuilding AWS. It’s a massive undertaking if you want feature parity.

Sure, but how many people/companies are perfectly served by serverless functions + queues + gateway + database + file service? I'd guess >90%. How much of that remaining 10% can be adequately patched by lauching virtual servers? Scaleway and OVHCloud both provide all of that. The problem is more about marketing and a modern variant of the good old "nobody got fired for buying IBM".

How about CloudFormation? CloudTrail? IAM? SSO?

If you want to make real money, you’ll need an endless amount of EE features, without which no E will commit.

You can’t survive on a few consumer features.

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