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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#651

Post by talldayo »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #565

The complete lack of any kind of technological understanding by the people in power of most major governments is a huge existential risk. Thankfully businesses like Apple are completely staked on privacy, but Apple is actually big enough to give a middle finger to the UK. Other companies might not be able to.

Apple frequently acquiesces to privacy-diminishing demands from demonstrably unnecessary markets like China and Russia. They are also card-holding members of PRISM and admit to being part of warrantless surveillance efforts[0] in America.

If you're holding out on Apple, a company that has proven to betray every principle they claim to stand for, to defend privacy when money is on the line, then you've been fooled. I don't know how many times Hacker News has to say it before you chumps learn, but Apple is not a privacy-committed company. Being able to point at whitepapers is not the same as knowing how your device functions.

[0] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#652

Post by kccqzy »

cesarb wrote: post #173
latexr wrote: post #89

> When asked by The Post whether any government had requested a backdoor, Google spokesman Ed Fernandez did not provide a direct answer but suggested none exist: "Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data, even with a legal order," he stated. No, that does not suggest none exists, it only says they don’t have access to it. They could have chosen or have been ordered to give the keys to the governm…

> No, that does not suggest none exists, it only says they don’t have access to it. They could have chosen or have been ordered to give the keys to the government agency but not keep one themselves. The whole definition of "end-to-end encrypted" is that only the two ends have the keys. If anyone or anything other than the two ends (the one sending and the one receiving) has access to the keys, it's not end-to-end enc…

Yes exactly. Google is very careful to say that "Google cannot access Android end-to-end encrypted backup data" and notice it doesn't say that all Android backups are end-to-end encrypted. For what we know, Google could have decided to use non-end-to-end backups in the UK and end-to-end backups everywhere else.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#653

Post by tzs »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #522
gnfargbl wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except perhaps for people living near the border in Northern Ireland, "going to the EU" for warranty work is a completely unfeasible suggestion. It's not exactly a short or cheap journey for most of us!

Ireland doesn't have a single apple store in it. The closest thing that exists are stores in their authorised reseller program.

If the reseller is also an Apple authorized service provider that should find. They have genuine Apple parts and can do warrant and AppleCare work.

Not sure it would be worth it though, unless you are in Northern Ireland. If you are someplace more like London it would be a lot faster to go to the nearest Apple Store in France and a lot cheaper.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#654

Post by int_19h »

idle_zealot wrote: post #144
p0w3n3d wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most horrible part of the discussion we're making is that we're arguing that UK intelligence should be able to access only UK related data, and not that UK intelligence should not undermine privacy of people

The Overton Window has shifted.

Has it? UK has a long-standing reputation as one of the most persistent surveillance nanny states in the West.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#655

Post by kccqzy »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

The constitution is merely a few pages of paper produced by the founding fathers together with many more pages of paper produced by the Supreme Court.

Without men and women willing to stand by it and defend it, it is useless. And what we are seeing is that there are increasing number of people who have taken an oath to defend the constitution but have chosen not to do so.

History is full of cases where a well written constitution is ignored by the ruling government.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#656

Post by int_19h »

gsk22 wrote: post #549
smodo wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean? Who upholds those codified freedoms? Many democratic countries have similar fundamental laws that are explicitly hard to change or bypass. In the end though all rules are either enforced by some authority or they are mere suggestions. The USA doesn’t seem like a special case to me?

> Many democratic countries have similar fundamental laws that are explicitly hard to change or bypass. What exactly constitutes "hard to change"? In many countries, fundamental freedoms are regular legislation which can be overturned in the usual manner. Even a threshold of 2/3 or 3/4 to change is much easier to overcome than the federated constitutional amendment process in the US.

> Even a threshold of 2/3 or 3/4 to change is much easier to overcome than the federated constitutional amendment process in the US.

This can go either way. If you can agree 3/4 of state legislatures to agree on an amendment, you can successfully ratify it (via convention if needed if Congress isn't amenable). But 3/4 of state legislatures can represent small states - so much so that it's possible to amend the US Constitution though legislatures that are nominally representing less than 25% of the country (and in practice even less than that when you consider the effects of FPTP).

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#657

Post by int_19h »

Jigsy wrote: post #518
wkat4242 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Tories are not in power. Can't labour just repeal it?

Which party do you think passed the "Tell us your password or go to prison law" to begin with? (Hint: It certainly isn't Tory.) It's also one of the reasons why I will never vote Labour as long as I live.

Are there any parties in UK that are anti-surveillance and have ever had even one seat?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#658

Post by int_19h »

alkonaut wrote: post #304
Funes- wrote: post #216

Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".

I think this is unnecessarily defeatist. The UK is still a well functioning democracy. Using scare quotes around proper democracy just blurs the line to authoritarians and dictators. We elect our politicians. We demand they stop serious crime and terrorism. When they have bad ideas about how to do that, we let them know that it's a bad idea. Or we don't elect them again. This works.

And yet you have a lengthy accumulation of the aforementioned bad ideas.

Perhaps because in your FPTP electoral system, you have few avenues to actually "let them know that it's a bad idea". I mean, supposing you don't like this particular law - which party would you vote for to send the signal?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#659

Post by int_19h »

krn1p4n1c wrote: post #175
flanked-evergl wrote: post #171

The writing is on the wall for the UK, has been for long, and the Labour government is going out of the way to ensure there can never be any reform, even if they have no mandate. There is one way they want to go, and they will drag their population along kicking and screaming. Anyone who can should get out.

The question is increasingly becoming “where?”. Every place seems to be moving in this direction.

New Zealand.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#660

Post by int_19h »

_yb2s wrote: post #217
sharpshadow wrote: post #105

Question: Would it be technically feasible to make an Apple app which encrypts/decrypts the files used in iCloud and is able to use iCloud itself? As a solution to never have unencrypted files in iCloud.

Apple basically already has this built into macos - you can create an encrypted disk image and mount it to access the files. I'm not sure if it is possible to open these on ios.

iOS cannot mount .dmg files (at least, not without jailbreaking).
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