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Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#651

Post by Thorrez »

mtmail wrote: post #286
mgkimsal wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Next time I build something with Stripe I'm going to test it in production before launching I'm genuinely curious why you wouldn't have done that anyway? I pretty much always do, precisely so I can experience a full end to end user experience.

Stripe advises against that (I'm not saying it makes sense) "Do not use real card details. Testing in live mode using real payment method details is prohibited by the Stripe Services Agreement. Use your test API keys and the card numbers below." https://stripe.com/docs/testing

The testing doc says it's against the agreement, but from a 1 minute look at the agreement, I can't find where the agreement bans testing in live mode. Do you see it?

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#652

Post by veqq »

abigail95 wrote: post #327
elliekelly wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it is government under the hood you have to know what you're accused of. This is exactly why the whole process is suspect. The government farms out the policing of certain financial crimes onto the financial institutions as a prerequisite for operating the business. If the government came along and froze your bank account you’d have a right to ask why and a right to get some answers. But instead the governm…

I'm trying to understand your position here: You think AML/KYC laws, as they currently exist, are unconstitutional? edit: That's a fine position to have, but it's a fringe one, and I don't think you should be offering it as a reason why Stripe does what it does that's generally accepted by everyone else.

It'd be unconstitutional, were the government in charge, without due process.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#653

Post by tlb »

Judgmentality wrote: post #402
tlb wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they almost always fail to mention it. Then it turns out they’re selling cannabis to Iran or something. And (rightly so) payment processors can’t tell us what the problem is. So I’m inclined to flag all such stories missing the obviously key information.

This really sounds like you're biased since your YC affiliation means you're invested in Stripe, and your statement essentially reads as "the (YC company) is always right, and the customer must prove otherwise." This mentality is largely the reason people hate tech/SV in the first place.

I'm not making that claim. I'm pointing out that a customer saying "X locked my account" without the relevant information for HN readers to decide whether or not X acted improperly doesn't make for a good HN submission.

If this company sells T-shirts or something, then Stripe may have acted improperly. If they sell cannabis, then Stripe would have acted as the law requires, as everyone in that industry knows perfectly well. So it's pretty relevant information, and HN readers deserve to have the information they need to make informed decisions. There are plenty of other places online for uninformed outrage bait.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#654

Post by elliekelly »

numair wrote: post #625
elliekelly wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bank Secrecy Act. And I don’t “think” it. I know it.

Unless you are a federal prosecutor, law enforcement officer, or bank executive that has actively worked on a Bank Secrecy Act case, I don't think you can authoritatively state that this sort of cowboy-style, "Move Fast and Break Things" way of blitz-scaling revenues while downscaling customer service favored by companies such as Stripe has ANYTHING to do with the Bank Secrecy Act. If anything, I would bet that regul…

I am indeed more than qualified to “authoritatively state this”. Even by the ridiculous standards you’ve outlined. And I would be more than happy to take that bet.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#655

Post by yaythefuture »

trollied wrote: post #472
yaythefuture wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm proud to announce that Edwin officially pulled through for us today. All our accounts have been reactivated. There are clearly problems at Stripe. But this kind human is not one of them.

You need to explain what happened, and what sector you operate in. Doing this support stuff on HN as a last resort & getting on the front page is crap in the first place, not feeding back is even worse.

Edwin broke it down here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32859520

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#656

Post by yaythefuture »

etcet wrote: post #524
yaythefuture wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, not quite. It's more I'm concerned that people considering using my product will see this in the future (hopefully when this issue is resolved) and be wary of doing business with us.

Is it an animal, a mineral, or a vegetable? Surely you can give us enough generic information that we can know roughly what kind of business you run without making it searchable.

We operate in the public sector where the number of startups is small. If I shared the vertical you'd be able to narrow it down to 2 or 3 companies.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#657

Post by yaythefuture »

trollied wrote: post #471
anigbrowl wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally understandable, but what kind of business is it? If you just keep saying 'it's a business' but refuse to provide any further details then people are gonna make assumptions, eg adult entertainment. Nobody's asking what your specific business model is. Also consider that if the situation continues your pissed-off downstream customers will ID you sooner or later.

He's ignoring the "what type of business" questions. I'm getting downvoted. I don't care. He's ignoring it for a reason still.

We operate in the public sector.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#658

Post by elliekelly »

bigiain wrote: post #562
elliekelly wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I don’t think it’s unconstitutional which is why I said “ otherwise unconstitutional”. And you’re (perhaps deliberately) completely misunderstanding and conflating my two comments. I am quite confident that OP’s problems with Stripe are AML related which is not at all a “fringe” position.

> I am quite confident that OP’s problems with Stripe are AML related I'm curious as to why you think that? Is this a way way more common thing than I expect? Or is "My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients" a raging red AML flag I don't recognise (I've never done that, so it could easily be)?

I’m confident it’s an AML issue because they’re getting stonewalled which is standard operating procedure when a Suspicious Activity Report has been filed. I don’t think using Stripe Connect is the red flag.

The thing with SARs is that they tend to be cascading as OP described. So if I (innocently and totally coincidentally) do a transaction with someone who has been flagged for suspicious activity my account might now be flagged as “higher risk” for suspicious activity and will be monitored more closely.

And, if they decide they’ve found suspicious activity in my account then everyone who does business with me is at risk of having their accounts flagged as “higher risk” for closer monitoring and so on.

And the bank isn’t allowed to tip anyone off because if any of those accounts are actually laundering money they might suddenly withdraw it and then the “lead” from the SAR is moot. It’s actually a crime to notify someone about the suspicious transaction(s). Which is why you get stonewalled.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#659

Post by numair »

elliekelly wrote: post #654
numair wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are a federal prosecutor, law enforcement officer, or bank executive that has actively worked on a Bank Secrecy Act case, I don't think you can authoritatively state that this sort of cowboy-style, "Move Fast and Break Things" way of blitz-scaling revenues while downscaling customer service favored by companies such as Stripe has ANYTHING to do with the Bank Secrecy Act. If anything, I would bet that regul…

I am indeed more than qualified to “authoritatively state this”. Even by the ridiculous standards you’ve outlined. And I would be more than happy to take that bet.

So you’re stating that you have been involved in a situation in which a merchant account was frozen due to circumstances involving the Bank Secrecy Act? I just want to be completely certain that this is the assertion?

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#660

Post by remram »

themoonisachees wrote: post #415
phendrenad2 wrote: post #245

According to previous posts* this company sells something related to cannibis. I'd love to know why certain categories are always flagged or silently banned. Cannibis, sex toys, porn, crypto, etc. Payment processors seem to always give these categories the worst service and whenever a company is nuked like this, it's usually one of these categories. Why is that? It almost feels like there's some secret government org…

Cannabis is federally illegal, sex toys and porn have incredibly high chargeback rates and crypto has this handy thing where since you can't reverse anything, as soon as the crypto you bought is out of the custody wallet you cant get the thing back so the chargeback rates are also very high. Don't believe me? Ask anyone at the front desk of a hotel the rate of attempted chargebacks for ppv porn. You can get vetted by…

> the front desk of a hotel the rate of attempted chargebacks for ppv porn

To be honest this seems more like a hotel problem than a porn problem. E.g., I viewed it by mistake, I didn't understand the pricing, etc. I would expect that there is a similar amount of complaints about the hotel room's minibar and snacks that are lying there but charged an incredible rate afterwards if touched.

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