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1Password Has Raised $620M

blog.1password.com

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Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#651

Post by matheweis »

vmurthy wrote: post #648
matheweis wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two major reasons for the backlash: 1: 1Password already backhanded users once for business reasons. They used to be a nice, local password manager that synced with dropbox or your choice of filesystem. Then they added cloud support and used dark patterns to force adoption of a subscription based cloud service while making the local version harder and harder to use. At some point I gave up, I’m not even sure it’s pos…

> This is now the path of the majority of American corporations Nitpicking but 1P is a Canadian company :) . I guess the pattern is almost universal?

Good call out :)

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#652

Post by travisporter »

JadoJodo wrote: post #11

Both the Fastmail[0] and Privacy [1] integrations have made 1Password a joy to use in the past few years. I've used premium BitWarden in the past, but the UX of 1Password is hard to beat. Congrats to the 1Password team! - [0] https://blog.1password.com/fastmail-masked-email/ - [1] https://blog.1password.com/privacy-virtual-cards/

How much of a challenge would it be to achieve such an integration with Bitwarden?

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#653

Post by kjreact »

BoorishBears wrote: post #642
Dylan16807 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want money to sync my passwords between my Windows desktop and my iPhone. Seems reasonable to me. Money for service is fine, but this is a long term thing, and I'm not going to pay $180 per 5 years to keep 100KB in sync. And the software doesn't justify that price either.

I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... It's 3 dollars a month. You could be conservative with tissue paper and make up the difference to your monthly budget... so how much cheaper can you get that cheaper than tissue paper and still expect the service to be around forever .

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control.

Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it.

Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version and I’m suppose to be thankful that they’re “only” charging $3 a month?

These types of subscriptions are purely highway robbery. I’d be happy to pay for upgrades if software needs to be updated to remain compatible with browser or OS updates, but let me decide whether I feel it’s necessary.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#654

Post by BoorishBears »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #650
BoorishBears wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... It's 3 dollars a month. You could be conservative with tissue paper and make up the difference to your monthly budget... so how much cheaper can you get that cheaper than tissue paper and still expect the service to be around forever .

> I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... Because I'm going to be using it for that long. > It's 3 dollars a month. For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time, but suddenly you're paying a whole cable bill for marginal value. Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero. > and still expect the service to be around forever I…

> Because I'm going to be using it for that long.

Cool, I'm planning to use it for a lifetime. The point is that you didn't just use the monthly number because it's extremely low as far as paid software subscriptions go...

-

And I don't do this:

> Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero.

So I don't end up worrying about:

> For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time, but suddenly you're paying a whole cable bill for marginal value.

-

> I don't want the service, just sell me the program.

First off you literally just said:

> Money for service is fine, but this is a long term thing, and I'm not going to pay $180 per 5 years to keep 100KB in sync.

So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive...

But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that.

It's super cool that you want to get their hard work in the most personally beneficial way, but they have this very reasonably priced service that lets the people have the software, and them have their livelihood.

You can say "oh well I don't care about maintenance, I'll buy the new version if it's compatible with my OS", which again is super convenient for you... but once they hit plateaus in new users are they just supposed to pause development until old versions break?

If the utility of the program was so low you wouldn't be asking them for it without the service after all... if it's "just storing 100kb of text" there's plenty of other options out there.

10 cents a day for something that saves a lot of stress is a great price.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#655

Post by BoorishBears »

kjreact wrote: post #653
BoorishBears wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... It's 3 dollars a month. You could be conservative with tissue paper and make up the difference to your monthly budget... so how much cheaper can you get that cheaper than tissue paper and still expect the service to be around forever .

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it. Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version…

> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control.

This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it.

Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month?

Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development.

Some software you use exists because people work on it for free, some exists because massive ad-tech companies defiling the globe's privacy fund it, etc.

-

Paid subscriptions is one of those types, and as far as paid subscriptions go 3 dollars a month is bottom of the barrel.

Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look?

Many MANY companies have tried one time payments and died over it. People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once. A tech forum isn't exactly where to get perspective on that for example...

1Password clearly tried the one time payment model, and if I had to imagine for a second, I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes.

Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit...

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#656

Post by Dylan16807 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #654
Dylan16807 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... Because I'm going to be using it for that long. > It's 3 dollars a month. For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time, but suddenly you're paying a whole cable bill for marginal value. Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero. > and still expect the service to be around forever I…

> Because I'm going to be using it for that long. Cool, I'm planning to use it for a lifetime. The point is that you didn't just use the monthly number because it's extremely low as far as paid software subscriptions go... - And I don't do this: > Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero. So I don't end up worrying about: > For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time…

> So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive...

No, I don't. "Money for service" is fine as a principle. This particular service is something I don't want at all. Those can both be true at the same time.

> But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that.

I'm happy to pay for software updates. But software is supposed to last more than 10-16 months. Which is how often you'd be paying a reasonable shelf price of 30-50 dollars. Generally software can be expected to last ten years without trouble.

> very reasonably priced service

What's your definition of reasonable here? $20 a month is a great deal if that's the price of security! So $20 a month would be reasonable by that metric. But I think we can both agree that's too high. So how do we decide? And it can't just be that low dollar amounts are automatically reasonable, because we're not rounding to zero.

> If the utility of the program was so low you wouldn't be asking them for it without the service after all... if it's "just storing 100kb of text" there's plenty of other options out there.

I'd say the utility of the program is worth a solid $30-50. The program does all the good stuff. The program isn't the service. The program manages my passwords, the service just syncs a tiny file.

I can get the same syncing UX in most password managers just by logging into an existing account I already have. The stress of that one-time login is nothing. It's less stress than making a new account for 1password.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#657

Post by Dylan16807 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #655
kjreact wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it. Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version…

> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it. Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. Some sof…

> Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development.

It does. But if we're talking about just the software, I don't think updates to an already-finished password manager are worth nearly that much.

Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#658

Post by BoorishBears »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #657
BoorishBears wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it. Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. Some sof…

> Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. It does. But if we're talking about just the software, I don't think updates to an already-finished password manager are worth nearly that much. Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.

> already-finished password manager

No such thing.

If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living.

> Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.

Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#659

Post by paulcole »

jeffrallen wrote: post #534
samgranieri wrote: post #76

I really wish they weren't doing away with 1password classic and the native mac app. I like the fact I bought a license, that I can store the data on dropbox or icloud, and it works just fine. Yes, this is old news and sour grapes on my part. I just don't yet feel like migrating to bitwarden. I've been using 1password for 12 years since I saw it on a tutorial on peepcode.com. I actually taught my mother how to use it…

They should take 20 million, endow a foundation, and have the foundation hire a couple of their original devs to make a clean room, open-source equivalent to 1Password 6. Then those of us who actually just want a self hosted password manager, not a massive whacky cloud secret factory, can use that. Sigh, what a stupid world we live in, where greed destroys everything good.

Why exactly “should” they do that?

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#660

Post by indymike »

wlesieutre wrote: post #537
yccs27 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully the consumer marketshare has some influence on business decisions, which might make it worthwile for them to keep non-business customers. This kind of strategy certainly works for some professional software, which is often even free for students.

I suspect 1Password sees features like iCloud Keychain coming and is trying to grow into other markets because a "good enough" built-in password manager will significantly decrease their value proposition in the consumer space. Not great if you like their product as a consumer, but 1Password's biggest feature differentiator right now is better family sharing than iOS provides. That could easily change in a future iOS…

> Enterprise features on the other hand, that's not something that OS vendors are likely to ship.

Maybe not on Mac, but MS will probably try.

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