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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#651

Post by bhelkey »

jlokier wrote: post #369
onion2k wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX wins lots of space contracts with the help of Musk's "Occupy Mars" marketing. Tesla sells lots of cars on the promise of self-driving in the marketing. Musk bought BTC, single-handedly pumped the price of BTC, and then sold at a huge profit. I don't think he's a genius but Musk is definitely not stupid. He's just not playing the obvious game you think he's playing.

> and then sold at a huge profit No they didn't, according to the announcment: >> Tesla will not be selling any Bitcoin and we intend to use it for transactions as soon as mining transitions to more sustainable energy.

From their Q1 disclosure, Tesla made $272 Million from 'Proceeds from sales of digital assets' [1]. From the same disclosure, Tesla still holds $1,331 Million (~$1.3 Billion) of digital assets. As this is from their Q1 disclosure, they may have sold more since March 31st.

[1] https://ir.tesla.com/

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#652

Post by imtringued »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #501
dragontamer wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Global Warming" is about the Earth going ~2C to 4C out-of-whack with our traditional norms over the next century or so. Mars is about being at -60C all the time, or roughly 80C away from what humans want. And temperature isn't even the worst part: Mars doesn't have enough oxygen for Humans to survive. Mars doesn't have enough nitrogen for plants to grow (and make oxygen). Mars doesn't have enough gravity to keep a d…

There's 7 billion human brains on earth. We can spare a couple to focus on making our species multi-planetary while the rest deal with cleaning up the mess at home. It's unreasonable to expect the entire human race to stop what they're doing and focus on one issue.

There is no meaningful difference between surviving extreme conditions on mars and extreme conditions on earth.

The only difference is that the number of people that can live in extreme conditions is much smaller than the number that can live in normal conditions.

Fighting against climate change is purely about making sure that the earth can maintain 7 billion + humans. Any mars colonization program will not progress fast enough to let 7 billion humans inhabit mars within the next 200 years.

>It's unreasonable to expect the entire human race to stop what they're doing and focus on one issue.

Nobody said "stop what they're doing" except you. But the usual argument is that Elon Musk is accelerating the progress toward mars colonization and accelerating that progress simply isn't needed because of time constraints that no amount of money can solve. It will take decades no matter what a conman tells you.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#653

Post by ShroudedNight »

logicchains wrote: post #644
_vertigo wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of Covid has never been the individualized risk. It's the collective risk of what happens when hospitals and ICUs reach capacity when too many people catch Covid at once. For example, what is happening in India. This was widely known in the US on the first week of March in 2020. When hospitals reach capacity, people in their 40s and 50s become much more likely to die from Covid. Lots of preventable loss of l…

>For example, what is happening in India. What is happening in India? The death rate per capita there is still way less than in the US or UK. How come the death rate in Florida is less than that in California and New York, in spite of no lockdowns and an older population in Florida? There's no statistical evidence that countries with stricter lockdowns had a lower death rate than those without.

The signals I'm seeing from India strongly suggest that their death rate is massively under-reported.

http://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess...

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#655

Post by FabHK »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #103
phire wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla might not have dumped. But I'd be very interested to see Musk's personal trading accounts, and the trading accounts of his close associates.

Or better yet, did they move into Dogecoin, which apparently uses a lot less energy. Setting up the inevitable 'use Doge instead, it's better for the environment'

Does it use less energy intrinsically, or because it hasn't gone up enough yet, triggering more hashing with a concomitant increase in difficulty and energy use?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#656

Post by pydry »

samatman wrote: post #332
pydry wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is partially broken because of him. He engaged in deliberate market manipulation to draw short seller blood. Once it became clear he'd get nothing more than a slap on the wrist for that stunt they backed off and the hype machine had no counterbalance. Once the shorts do come back though they will come back with a vengeance.

Like it or not, and I'm undecided, that's principled on his part. He's been pretty clear that he thinks shorting, as it works right now, is dirty pool and should be illegal. I try to stay out of esoteric finance stuff, but it's hard the way the world works these days. I kinda think he has a point about naked shorts, at least, Gamestonk showed everyone an ugly failure mode for that one. So my take is that the huge Tes…

>moderately confident that he was personally trying to rake short sellers over the coals, not so much moon Tesla stock

You're saying he committed securities fraud for a higher moral purpose and you're moderately confident that the fact it led to him briefly becoming the richest man in the world didn't motivate him in any way?

That's quite an interesting claim.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#657

Post by asenna »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #146
freshair wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does anyone justify these obscure tokens and coins being worth billions. The Greater Fool Theory. This stops working when you run out of fools, but the notion of "there's another sucker born every minute" probably keeps the ball rolling for a while.

Sure, but I thought there could be no more greater fools in 2013, and again in 2017. It is shocking how many fools exist.

At some point would you not agree that there is a probability that you’re the greater fool here by dismissing the entire field?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#658

Post by imtringued »

sickygnar wrote: post #93
liquidise wrote: post #8

My hot-take having watched the culling from an invested position follows. Disclaimer: i hold both BTC and ETH. While the market in general is down, the major losses in this crash were Bitcoin, Doge and Shiba. Bitcoin is an obvious result given the news. Doge and Shiba have had pretty spectacular gains over the last ~30d and seeing them lose considerable value is unsurprising if you follow crypto markets much. Seeming…

I'm the oppsite, and I'm not a btc maximalist. I'm not going to make any predicitons about the price direction of either coin, I'm mainly surprised by eth's huge rise. there's some risk with the eth2 / PoS migration, though it comes with a huge benefit. would someone mind explaining the technical risk? i'm not that well versed in it, maybe i'm overstating it (the market is obviously bullish about it). without it, sma…

>hedge against inflation

If an asset is an inflation hedge and it goes up faster than inflation, there is a risk that it will go down eventually to match the inflation rate. This is true for gold. Pretty much nobody believes this for Bitcoin, everyone expects Bitcoin to exceed inflation over the long term.

Even if you ignore the above in general Bitcoin is a poor asset (downgrade from hedge) against inflation because it doesn't care about inflation. It's highly volatile which means it can go down while inflation is going up, which is the exact opposite of what you want from an inflation hedge.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#659

Post by FabHK »

UncleMeat wrote: post #467
nprz wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s how the btc network works, that’s what censorship-resistant means. You would primarily transact on a payment layer, which true, may not have all the features of the base layer. But you also have the ability to opt-in and transact directly on the blockchain and get all those nice features listed above, however the transaction fee would be higher and the speed of the transaction slower.

For some definition of "higher" and "slower", yes. The scale of BTC is such that if we distributed transactions evenly across the 7b people on the planet, you get one transaction per five years . The current mining payout is 6.5BTC per block, or roughly $350,000. We are fitting around 1,500 transactions in a block, meaning each transaction costs $300. The price will only rise as more miners join and there is more dem…

> you get one transaction per five years

Isn't it per 89 years? So basically every person gets one transaction in their lifetime. (If we are generous and allow for 5 transactions per second, then everyone can make 2 transactions in their lifetime. Yay!) That is rather remarkable.

(1500 transactions/block * 6 block/h * 24 h/d * 365 d/y / 7e9 person = 1/89 transactions per person per year)

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#660

Post by ben_w »

Robotbeat wrote: post #150
ben_w wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only perplexing if you assume he knows all that you know. Musk appears to be a fantastically competent salesman and decent rocket scientist, but we shouldn’t expect him to have the Midas touch on other fields of competence. And while Musk ought to employ people to warn him about all the issues he now cites as why he changed policy, remember that he did start The Boring Company in response to getting stuck in a t…

Technically, the kid name was Grimes’ idea.

Ok, fair. I didn’t know that.
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