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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#651

Post by PragmaticPulp »

gburdell3 wrote: post #538
nkrisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

It has to be software. I have a ThinkPad that I recently installed macOS on (not advocating hackintosh, but it's a fun project nonetheless) and the trackpad feels every bit as good as a real Mac. Smooth scrolling, smooth gesture recognition, everything just feels good. The hardware is capable of processing the gestures, but the non-Apple software just does a terrible job of making it feel good to use.

I suspect the key software is in the firmware of the trackpad itself. The hardware does a lot of processing of the raw signals before it hands the data to the trackpad driver. The driver does additional processing, of course, but this also means that alternate trackpad implementations need more than just the right driver code. The firmware plays a key role.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#653

Post by wishinghand »

layer8 wrote: post #557
wishinghand wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'd prefer few keys, just 18 per side for my fingers and a row of 4-6 for each of my thumbs. I'd handle numbers, function keys, volume, and whatever else you mentioned with layers.

Those keys already have their own layers in a lot of software. Having to press yet another additional modifier key destroys usability and muscle memory.

> Having to press yet another additional modifier key destroys usability and muscle memory

I'm far more comfortable moving my fingers and thumbs as little as possible rather than having to stretch far and wide for those extra function keys.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#654

Post by bscphil »

IQunder130 wrote: post #313
nrp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!

I hope this business of yours works out because a laptop that isn't a piece of junk with too much stuff I don't need inflating the price is something I've been wanting for a long time.

Hmm, not that it's "something you don't need", per se, but

> 4TB or more of Gen4 NVMe storage

Suggests to me that this will be targeted at the "money is no object" market. (And it might still be something you don't need, I keep all my media on a server, so 1TB would be more than sufficient, thank you very much.)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#655

Post by pedalpete »

sudosteph wrote: post #646
pedalpete wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a case or skin be a better solution to this than a plastic housing?

I always worry about ventilation with cases, though that may unwarranted depending on the particular case / skin. I was cheap (and not sure if the laptop was my root issue at the time), so I ended up putting duct tape over the area my wrists touched, and that helped a lot. It looked pretty silly though. That said, when I had the option to get a laptop where I wouldn't have to think about it at all (plastic cased thin…

Yeah, I get it. I think plastic cases are going to be a tough sell for a company looking to be environmentally friendly. :)

You're also not in the majority, but as I stated, I'd prefer a non-metal looking laptop. I've got a Razer Blade Stealth 13 which I had to put a skin on because it's a fingerprint magnet. Skins really aren't that bad, and they're designed to not block the vents.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#656

Post by Silhouette »

nrp wrote: post #622
Silhouette wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been true historically in a lot of cases, but isn't the whole point of the Framework to do things in a different and better way? It would be very disappointing if a laptop like this was shipping with that kind of junkware installed as standard even on a Windows pre-install. In fact, it would instantly reverse my position having just heard about these guys from something like "I wish you luck, this is a much he…

No need to worry! Our Windows pre-install is vanilla. The only software added is the set of drivers strictly needed to make the hardware function.

Good answer. In that case, I shall remain happy to have discovered you today and I shall continue to wish you luck in shifting the market in healthier directions. :-)

FWIW, I'd be much more interested in your products as a solid platform for running Linux than whatever junk MS is including in Windows 10 this week anyway. But sometimes small issues can say a disproportionate amount about where a business really stands on some issues I care about, and things like having control over my own hardware and software for reasons ranging from longevity to privacy are high on my personal list.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#657

Post by SnowProblem »

samizdis wrote: post #103

Ars Technica has a sceptical but optimistic/hopeful take on it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/framework-startup-de... Edit to add quote from Ars article: Framework is promising an awful lot in its very first product—"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" is a pretty tall order to live up to. We very much want to believe, but it's going to take a full Ars Technica teardown before we're c…

I went with a Thinkpad over a Macbook a couple years ago exactly for these goals - repairability and modularity - so this looks pretty amazing to me. Especially the modular ports. That said, the lack of a discrete GPU makes this a no-go for what I do. Does anyone know if a dGPU is planned, and also any pricing?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#658

Post by josefresco »

nrp wrote: post #642
josefresco wrote: post #196

I can't imagine the stress of launching a "sustainable" tech product like this, knowing every aspect of the product and business will be ultra-scrutinized.

I had a 7 year long trial run for this by making consumer VR a thing ;)

I guess confidence is not your main issue ;-)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#659

Post by sjs382 »

nine_k wrote: post #412
sjs382 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. In the case of the framework laptop, most of the "modules" just seem to be USBC/Thunderbolt-to-X dongles that fit flush with the case.

This is very important. For those who use a laptop outside office desks, there is a lot of difference between flimsy setups with dongles hanging on wires, and the mechanically solid laptop case. Much easier to carry it around in one piece.

If you need something more 'rigid', things like this exist: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/product/B07PCP5J4Z

Re: The Framework Laptop

#660

Post by Alupis »

pedalpete wrote: post #655
sudosteph wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always worry about ventilation with cases, though that may unwarranted depending on the particular case / skin. I was cheap (and not sure if the laptop was my root issue at the time), so I ended up putting duct tape over the area my wrists touched, and that helped a lot. It looked pretty silly though. That said, when I had the option to get a laptop where I wouldn't have to think about it at all (plastic cased thin…

Yeah, I get it. I think plastic cases are going to be a tough sell for a company looking to be environmentally friendly. :) You're also not in the majority, but as I stated, I'd prefer a non-metal looking laptop. I've got a Razer Blade Stealth 13 which I had to put a skin on because it's a fingerprint magnet. Skins really aren't that bad, and they're designed to not block the vents.

Unless you just want to put a skin on your laptop, this feels like the whole "Rubber Band Antenna-gate" thing from Apple years back. The device should work as-is without some extra covering being required.

Not everyone has skin allergies, but if you are mass producing devices that will be in close contact with skin for long durations, made with metals that are well known to cause skin irritation - sooner or later you're going to run into people that are affected.

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