Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Framework Laptop

frame.work

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 1001 posts

Re: The Framework Laptop

#411

Post by hinkley »

baybal2 wrote: post #348
hinkley wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reinforcing fins can do quite a bit. Macbooks don't have a lot of flex. However, Apple has some patents that cover building up solid aluminum with stir welding instead of CNCing out of a solid block. You might have to challenge that patent (prior art, Boeing patents that may be older) to make it cheap, but if it's enthusiast targeted, an extra 50 bucks or whatever might be just fine for people.

You cannot weld aluminium, or at least not on the cheap. The only real "weldable aluminium" known today are scandium-aluminium alloys which are both hard to get, and expensive.

Cannondale bicycles would like to have a word with you. They started out making bikes out of 'aircraft aluminum' which if memory serves was [6061](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy), which is magnesium silicon, not scandium. Do you mean you can't weld aluminum in an oxygen environment? I think you're right about that at least. I think they used argon, and then had a patented(?) annealing process to keep it from falling apart under the customers. Not sure what they do now.

You have probably flown in an airplane with stir-welded aluminum. Stir welding is a bit like... making velcro and sticking it together at exactly the same time.

Nobody is building things out of 'aluminum' so it feels like nitpicking to argue about metalurgy for a company that is just going to buy stock in block or plate form. With a bunch of electronics nerds.

I only brought the metal in to talk about stiffening and because some patents may make it difficult for them to build a work-alike that lives up to their hype.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#412

Post by nine_k »

sjs382 wrote: post #260
lovelyviking wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. I still dream to meet the one who made such 'wise' decision to tell him what I think about it personally! >USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. I am…

> How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. In the case of the framework laptop, most of the "modules" just seem to be USBC/Thunderbolt-to-X dongles that fit flush with the case.

This is very important.

For those who use a laptop outside office desks, there is a lot of difference between flimsy setups with dongles hanging on wires, and the mechanically solid laptop case. Much easier to carry it around in one piece.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#413

Post by mumblemumble »

blainsmith wrote: post #18
mumblemumble wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hjkl keys look full size to me. ducks

Haha. I have adapted to that too, but why even bother with 1/2 keys then. The look like an afterthought.

It's probably difficult to build a laptop with mass market appeal if it's only trying to sell to vi people.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#414

Post by alkonaut »

I’d buy a well built machine even if it was 3x as thick and 3x as heavy as other laptops, with 1/3 the battery life. I just need a movable machine, not an actual “laptop”. Many of us from home with our machines plugged to the wall 98% of the time, yet the thermal and power design is for a thin battery powered device. I want a 150W laptop with a 120mm fan.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#415

Post by mnahkies »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #372
IQunder130 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this business of yours works out because a laptop that isn't a piece of junk with too much stuff I don't need inflating the price is something I've been wanting for a long time.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

Use the keyboard predominantly instead of the trackpad and problem mitigated ;)

I've been using Linux exclusively on ~5 different laptops of varying quality the last few years and I haven't been able to relate to the frequent comments about trackpad support being poor - not sure if it's just I don't use it that much, or don't realize what I'm missing since I haven't used a modern macbook.

My biggest gripe applies to all laptops and that's the insufficient ram offered on most models - IMO 16gb should be the baseline, and 32gb approaching normal with the demands of current software (yes software could be more efficient but this isn't the reality we find ourselves in)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#416

Post by the_hoser »

boogies wrote: post #407
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. For working with text (including code) keyboards are better, and for gaming mice are better. Where I'm less sure is graphics and video, but it seems to me like specialized mice, graphics tablets, and other tools (eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/key... and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/pan... ) are b…

When done right, they're wonderful. When done wrong, you end up creating custom keybindings to augment your workflow and lug a mouse around when that doesn't cut it. I've never seen a PC laptop do it right.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#417

Post by sixothree »

boogies wrote: post #407
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. For working with text (including code) keyboards are better, and for gaming mice are better. Where I'm less sure is graphics and video, but it seems to me like specialized mice, graphics tablets, and other tools (eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/key... and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/pan... ) are b…

Let me introduce you to the developers whose primary machine is a laptop without a mouse. Or a second screen.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#418

Post by durst »

samstave wrote: post #396
nrp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!

Just an anecdote on the value of modular and repairable hardware: Compaq vs Sun: I was the IT Director for Decide.com in ~1998-ish and we had a bunch of compaq servers and a bunch of SUN servers... At the time - SUN was *giving* servers to startups to adopt their HW. I had to build out a ton of systems in various DCs and the SUN machines were not rack-mountable, but were like $50,000 a unit... and they had this *secu…

Very cool! Did others in the company appreciate the benefits of repairable hardware?

Also, $50,000 sounds like a lot of money. Was that price considered giving it away?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#419

Post by ehnto »

A big part of reparability is how readily available parts are. Using commodity parts available to anyone really helps with this, and so hopefully for parts like the battery module and the screen, they are off the shelf items. It sounds like the team at Framework have that in mind, so I am hopeful.

Also, this is a very small niche, but it would be rad if down the line they came out with a ruggedized chassis upgrade. A repairable laptop that can be used in the field? That would be a dream.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#420

Post by funcDropShadow »

treve wrote: post #365
lovelyviking wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is exactly the headache I was mentioning and dreaming to avoid. I do not need part of the laptop separated from the laptop to have additional task to think when to take them together and when not to take them together. I do not want to search for this 'little guy' in the dark and be stuck without it when I forgot to take it because a lot of other things happening in the same time around or I lost it…

The issue with this thread is that it seems like an argument, but different people just have different sensibilities. Get the machine that suits _you_. Unless you want to run Apple OS because then you're not given choice.

> Get the machine that suits _you_. Unless you want to run Apple OS because then you're not given choice.

And that is exactly the point. I used to be a very happy customer of multiple Macbook Pros over almost a decade. Currently, I am still using my 2015 Macbook Pro 15" with maxed out specs when not in my home office. But all the later models went downhill for my needs. The new Macbook Air M1 is the first model that I am thinking about buying. It is probably powerful enough to work on it, and I think I actually get some value back from the saved spaced due to dropped ports. Even the 2015" Macbook Pros with 15" are at a thickness were I simply see no point to remove even half a milli-meter of thickness. I would gladly use a thicker, heavier variant if it had multiple different ports including Ethernet. One problem that I had over the time with all Thunderbolt dongles was that the physical connection became unreliable over time. That is hassle I don't want to deal with.

Post reply on HN