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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#651

Post by paulcole »

dnissley wrote: post #619
jacksnipe wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, I read the James Damore memo, and that's what I got out of it. It's the classic groundwork for an argument of scientific sexism.

I'm guessing you got that impression by reading between the lines since he certainly did not say so literally. Since the memo is pretty short, could you go back over it and offer up a justification for that assertion? Is it possible that you rushed to judgement and heard what you wanted to hear?

> I'm guessing you got that impression by reading between the lines since he certainly did not say so literally.

It’s called a dog whistle. Damore knew exactly what he was saying, who it would appeal to, and how to attempt to cover himself when the whole thing blew up in his face.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#652

Post by quadrifoliate »

jlokier wrote: post #508
o10449366 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read that book. Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record?

> Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record? Does the regular outcome of popular votes in favour of shafting minorities, restricting human rights etc. rather than general fairness and dignity for all persons regardless of background count?

"Popular" votes often differ substantially from actual public opinion due to things like gerrymandering, the two-party system, absence of ranked-choice voting, voter suppression, and the the like.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#653

Post by thisiszilff »

jlokier wrote: post #366
cm2187 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a contradiction in calling for more economic equality for minorities in the US and picking on ICE. Illegal immigration applies a downward pressure on wages of low skill workers, which is precisely where minorities are over-represented in the US.

Your own contradiction is much more substantial! Immigration enforcement is literally the use of force to maintain a larger economic inequality than the downward pressure you referred to. Not in some subtle way. Enforcing politically decided inequality is literally the purpose of ICE. It makes people uncomfortable to talk of it in those terms, but when you get down to it, a lot of people want to see enforced inequali…

The charitable interpretation of immigration enforcement is that it ensures a nation does not get overwhelmed by people entering the nation -- in terms of its economy, bureaucracy, etc. I can see that argument that enforcing immigration maintains the economic inequality between individuals in the US and, for example, individuals in Guatemala, but controlled immigration ensures that a nation is capable of growing and supporting the immigrants that come in in the first place. After-all, immigrants are coming to a given country because of perceived advantages of that country, if too many immigrants come at a single time, those advantages may disappear.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#654

Post by austincheney »

Why do people on the west coast actively try to conflate their employers with their personal politics? To everyone else in the world this is so utterly bizarre. This, in addition to the high cost of living, is why I refuse to work there.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#655

Post by chiefalchemist »

rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

To your point, where does it end? Will libraries used by many but also Out-of-Favor Entity X also be removed? Who gets to decide? The media?

Blaming ICE for immigration policy that have been inept for decades is going to solve what?

I understand the concern and the intent. I don't - yet? - see the impact.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#656

Post by camdenlock »

dnissley wrote: post #539
koheripbal wrote: post #473

Our medium sized company created a simple policy in early 2016 - No religion - no politics in the office. I never dreamed that policy would pay dividends so profoundly. The distraction of having activists within your company trying to actively pressure the company via public channels - I mean it's almost unbelievable that this is the new norm. ...an I am so very thankful we seemed to have sidestepped it.

Don't celebrate too early. It took less than 5 years for this 'thing' to go from college campuses to big companies... What will you do when a twitter mob comes for your company because you're "oppressing your workers ability to speak out about injustice and human rights" or "remaining silent, which is violence"?

This is the real threat we should all be talking about. It’s so sad to me that it’s barely discussed. These new religions and their witch hunts are great at silencing discussions out of fear.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#657

Post by pmiller2 »

iguy wrote: post #641
pmiller2 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem to affect Google much, and we all know how big G loves killing off products.

Have they killed many paid products? I think there is justified wariness about building too much on top of any service given away for free.

Explain all the businesses built on YouTube, then. YT is "free" to most consumers (paid for by ads), but there are literally people who make their livings as YouTube personalities.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#658

Post by chiefalchemist »

takeda wrote: post #505
rattray wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm glad that GitHub workers are allowed to protest this. It is heartening. That doesn't change the fact that I'm personally disappointed that they're executing that privilege on this particular issue.

"I'm happy that people are allowed to protest, but I don't think they should protest for causes that I don't agree with" "I think ICE needs reforms, but I don't believe a pressure should be put on them to impose changes" Makes me wonder if you truly support people protesting or even agree that ICE is doing anything wrong.

ICE doesn't make the law. Yes, there have been actions worthy of investigation. But blaming ICE for doing its job? Is it's ICE's fault there are 12 million undocumented immigrants? That was no accident.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#659

Post by afiori »

nordsieck wrote: post #647
afiori wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it is about phrasing "expert said that, so it must be true" is a fallacy, reaching a consensus via a relevant authority is not.

> In practice it is about phrasing "expert said that, so it must be true" is a fallacy, reaching a consensus via a relevant authority is not. Perhaps you could explain the difference?

In one case I am declaring that something needs to be true, in the other I am declaring that I believe something as true.

The authority fallacy is that a certain position cannot be challenged as some expert are infallible. Similarly to how you believe 2 + 2 = 4 you also believe Aristotle was the arbiter of truth. As an argument it exposes no attack surface because you do not admit criticisms of the position.

It is not a fallacy if you are simply making an assumption of a fact (eg that rats are born out of rotting plants) that can be separately proven or disproven.

Sort of how a dictionary is used, it is not that the dictionary must be true we understand that it is possible for it to be wrong, it is just that we agree not to contest it in most cases for ease of conversation.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#660

Post by sukilot »

kelnos wrote: post #618
jlokier wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is religion a choice? I'm sure many people who believe in $DEITY, and the duties which follow from this, do not see "belief" as a choice they are making.

You've gotten downvoted for some reason, but I think you're right. The religious people I know could no more choose not to believe than I can choose to believe. Religious belief or non-belief comes as a response to life's experiences, heavily influenced by the level of indoctrination inflicted by parents when we're young. When I was 11 or 12, I realized I didn't believe in god (I didn't know the term "atheist" at the…

Once we assume free will doesn't exist, these debates are moot.
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